Zorki 4 shutter help

U

UberSquid

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Nov 22, 2011
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I recently bought a zorki 4 that worked for about five minutes and then bound up tight. I've done a lot of reading and I've repaired several cameras so I thought I would give it a go. :cool:

Right now the shutter curtains are completely wrapped around the drum. Pushing the release button does nothing. If I push it repeatedly eventually I can wind the advance knob but nothing happens. :bang:

I've removed the slow speed escapement because this was listed as one of the possible causes of shutter binding. I decided to just leave it out and see if I could get my high speeds back. No luck. :bang:

I pulled the timer mechanism because some times on other cameras the timer can cause issues but looking at this one, the timer shouldn't interfere with the shutter release but it's out, still no luck. :bang:

I've got it stripped down as far as I can, the last screw to drop the shutter housing out is in a deep hole on the rangefinder mechanism and I don't have a screwdriver the right size to fit in that hole so I'm going to hit the hardware store today to pick one up I can regrind to the proper size. Then I'll drop the entire shutter housing out to see if I can figure out what is binding it up.

Any suggestions on where to go from here? Any input is appreciated.

Also, if anyone has a bookend Zorki 4 that they would be willing to let go cheap for parts I'd be interested!

Thanks!

Jeremiah
 
Welcome to RFF and you will not believe this, but I do have a Z-4 body you can have if you pay the postage. Let's handle this by PM (personal message); feel free to ask here if you're not familiar with this function yet.
 
UberSquid said:
I've removed the slow speed escapement because this was listed as one of the possible causes of shutter binding. I decided to just leave it out and see if I could get my high speeds back. No luck. :bang:

I pulled the timer mechanism because some times on other cameras the timer can cause issues but looking at this one, the timer shouldn't interfere with the shutter release but it's out, still no luck. :bang:
Click to expand...
I can tell you what the problem is at present - exactly because you've taken out the slow-speed escapement. Without that in place, there is a tiny latch that will hold the shutter open once you've cocked it and fired it - the second curtain will never release!

Have a look at the sticky at the top of this sub-forum, it covers the Zorki 4/4K in some detail and may answer your questions. If not, feel free to ask more and someone will come up with a likely answer.

Put the escapement back in (the sticky tells you how) after checking it over and making sure it works properly. After that, start over at finding the problem. By the way, the FSU cameras can easily become "bound up tight" if you don't cock the shutter before setting the speed. That applies mostly to the ones that have the slow-speed mechanism, such as the Zorki 4.

P.S. Welcome to RFF.
 
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wolves3012 said:
I can tell you what the problem is at present - exactly because you've taken out the slow-speed escapement. Without that in place, there is a tiny latch that will hold the shutter open once you've cocked it and fired it - the second curtain will never release!

Have a look at the sticky at the top of this sub-forum, it covers the Zorki 4/4K in some detail and may answer your questions. If not, feel free to ask more and someone will come up with a likely answer.

Put the escapement back in (the sticky tells you how) after checking it over and making sure it works properly. After that, start over at finding the problem. By the way, the FSU cameras can easily become "bound up tight" if you don't cock the shutter before setting the speed. That applies mostly to the ones that have the slow-speed mechanism, such as the Zorki 4.

P.S. Welcome to RFF.[/quote

Thank you one and all for the welcome! I'm really excited about this forum, I thought I was kind of alone in my fanatical use of old film rangefinder cameras. It's nice to find a whole community dedicated to my favorite method of photography!

I've read through the CLA sticky and didn't find any detailed info on why the shutter binds on these cameras. Or what to look for specifically. Unfortunately most of my experience is with leaf or diaphragm shutters, this is the first focal plane I've jumped into but I figured it was broken anyway, might as well get an education since I really don't have anything to loose.

I read in one place that the higher speeds would work even without the slow speed escapement. I know that on other models people have even removed the slow speeds all together but I'm guessing they didn't remove the entire escapement to do it.

I'll toss it back in when I get home tonight. I work in advertising and since there is no one to talk to between thanksgiving and black friday I'm just taking all next week off so I'll have time to play with this and an argus C4 that has been sitting on my bench with a stuck shutter for two years now. Hopefully I'll get both of them working again. I've also got six Canonet GIIIs to redo the light seals on and try to get the meters to work on two others. Oh and I need to do a POD replacement on two Yashica GSNs also.

I might need to take another weeks vacation...

Thanks again for your help everyone! I really appreciate the info and offer of spare parts! Hopefully I'll be able to return the favor.

Jeremiah
Click to expand...
 
Can't help you w/ the Zorki, but the Argus C4 was the first camera I overhauled. If you have access to a pair of pliers and a screwdriver, you're set! Very simple camera to work on. The shutter has surely just got some oil on it. Once you get to it (or try from the back, since the shutter is exposed), just swab it w/ Q tips w/ some lighter fluid on them, wipe carefully w/ a clean one, and repeat as needed while taking time to try the shutter to see if it's working. You may have to remove the lens if that doesn't do it. Make sure you mark the lens at infinity before disassembling it. I didn't, and it took me more than a few tries to get the helical threads started in the right place.
 
Thanks for the advice on the Argus! There is a lot of oil on the blades. I've had good luck on really stuck camera's using an air brush and some solvent to loosen up some stuck parts. Yes I know that i might get solvent into places I don't want but with a double action I feel I actually have better control than with a q-tip! If I can get it working again and decide I like it I'll probably do a complete tear down anyway.

Jeremiah
 
UberSquid said:
I read in one place that the higher speeds would work even without the slow speed escapement. I know that on other models people have even removed the slow speeds all together but I'm guessing they didn't remove the entire escapement to do it.
Jeremiah
Click to expand...

If you did remove it completely so the part with the little gears and the part below that (the below part holds the small lever and a tiny spring which you only see if you dismantle the escapement all together). In that case the second curtain won't be arrested by the escapement....

However from what you describe, the Z4 may be in a more serious state: it might be that one or both of its shutterribbons have come loose. This results in a serious fault of the shutter not being able to close the shuttercurtain anymore (each curtain has two ribbons).

Here's a picture of a shutter of a Z4K I recently repaired for a fellow member, which shows the ribbons alongside the curtains:

6310540498_baa9ccea3a.jpg
 
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I've completely removed all the escapement, including the part below that holds the spring and lever.

I'm thinking that one of the ribbons has come loose. It looks like someone tried to replace the shutter on this. I didn't really think about it at first but I went home for lunch and looked at it again and the ribbons look pretty new as does the shutter material. It looks like I'm going to have to tear the whole shutter apart. Are there any good guides on replacing the shutters? I've not come across any on the web.
 
UberSquid said:
Are there any good guides on replacing the shutters? I've not come across any on the web.
Click to expand...

Here y'go:

http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page488.htm

http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page499.htm

http://members.myactv.net/~je245/cplpnshtr.htm

http://stephenc7.tripod.com/cameras/fed2.htm

Leica shutters are of course more or less identical to the zorki's shutter:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-90.html

http://www.zorkikat.com/basic-leica-fix-№1-bringing-a-leica-back-from-the-dead/157/comment-page-1/

if this doesn't work for you, drop a line and you may send it over for repair....
 
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Thank you all for your help! And especially thanks to batterytypehah!

I had to tear it clear down to the shutter. Oddly once I pulled the crate it snapped right into place and there was tension on the curtains again... I'm not sure what caused it still so my Zorki is still sitting in pieces on my bench. I figured since I've got it apart I might as well do a full strip, clean, lube, repaint. I'm thinking that a Zorki 4 will look sexy in black gloss enamel.

I'll post pics when I'm done.

Thank you again to everyone for your support!

Jeremiah

 
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