EmilGil
Well-known
That is a big problem. It seems in Scandinavia that people want to touch the camera they are about to buy, for which they go to the local store, but they buy it from the internet. Why? Because a $1500 camera is $50-100 cheaper when bought from a large internet store based in Germany (or any other EU country).photogdave said:
No wonder the small shops have a hard time to survive...
George Bonanno
Well-known
Sooner or Later...
Sooner or Later...
It certainly is fair to apply my experiences to "all" local camera shops. They are "all" a bunch of camera whores trying to separate you and me from our money. That is their bottom line and I stand by my statements.
Dave, sooner or later they might screw you... and only then will you see the light.
Best,
George
Sooner or Later...
It certainly is fair to apply my experiences to "all" local camera shops. They are "all" a bunch of camera whores trying to separate you and me from our money. That is their bottom line and I stand by my statements.
Dave, sooner or later they might screw you... and only then will you see the light.
Best,
George
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Gosh! A business that's in business to do business. What will they think of next?George Bonanno said:
...Mike
photogdave
Shops local
You should get out of Jersey more...
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
George Bonanno said:
Same can be said for anybody in business I'm afraid. I find my local store to be run by a decent fellow, staffed with pretty decent help.
peterc
Heretic
I'd have to agree with this. My local store went under about a month ago.matt fury said:
Unless a small independent has a large base of loyal customers they have no chance now.
Sales of film cameras (used or new) are pretty much in the tank. Big box stores can charge much less for photofinishing. Chains get huge breaks on processing lines and supplies. In fact one company is offering chains free photo lines and 1/2 price supplies for the first year if they switch over and sell the company's film exclusively.
As for digital, again chains can sell for less because they breaks on volume. And very few people stop in to get prints from digital.
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CosmicCharlie
Established
so many people just use there local camera store to see the item they want before the order on-line. The pick the brain of the employee who is being paid to sell for the store, then when they need help further they go back to the store.
Often these people will tell you they support local business but in truth it is only if they can match a warehouse that does not add value to the sale. No wonder they are going away.......
Often these people will tell you they support local business but in truth it is only if they can match a warehouse that does not add value to the sale. No wonder they are going away.......
dmr
Registered Abuser
Around here we have one which appears to be not only surviving but thriving!
Rockbrook Photo.
http://www.rockbrookcamera.com/aboutus/
They just opened up a third shop about a year ago. I've only been to the new one once, and it seemed a little bare compared to the other two, but that was right after it opened.
They have a very good variety of film, but unfortunately they aren't very competitive on price, otherwise I would give them more business. I stop in there every now and then for odds and ends. The one shop is actually very convenient for me on the way to work.
They have darkroom chemicals and all of that.
Yes, they are heavily into the {d-word} stuff, but it seems like they are holding their own.
Rockbrook Photo.
http://www.rockbrookcamera.com/aboutus/
They just opened up a third shop about a year ago. I've only been to the new one once, and it seemed a little bare compared to the other two, but that was right after it opened.
They have a very good variety of film, but unfortunately they aren't very competitive on price, otherwise I would give them more business. I stop in there every now and then for odds and ends. The one shop is actually very convenient for me on the way to work.
They have darkroom chemicals and all of that.
Yes, they are heavily into the {d-word} stuff, but it seems like they are holding their own.
ywenz
Veteran
From the website Rockbrook's stock looks rather diverse in that it resembles Calumet in the type of products they carry. There is no reason to think an operation like this won't do well.
I think the OP is worried about sad little stores like the "ye olde camera shop" down the street run by some old man with some old name names like "Willie or Art" who prefers to wear a photographer's vest as his work uniform. Above where Willie stands, hangs a big ass poster for Kodak Gold film and the color has faded over the years. His store would carry a sleuth of film cameras new and old in equal numbers, but doesn't attract a high-end enough clientele to justify carrying the likes of new Leica or Zeiss, or to a lesser extend - Bessa. It's safe to assume Willie will carry few crappy digital P&S in their stock to satisfy the "flavor of the month". (Or so he think it satisfies). However for some reason which will ultimately result in his business' demise, Willie decides his store will carry the full line of crappy digital P&S cameras from Kodak, and a few Polaroid digitals that has been out of production for a few years already. Due to their obsoleteness, the Polaroids are marked down 15% - indicated by a sign with hand written "15%" in black sharpie and a highlighter-green star outline for that "hey look at me" factor.
He would likely hire some kid named Kyle (who's currently taking "Photography 1" in high school to fulfill his free elective credits) to help out with sales because he figured the kid knows more about the "new" stuff (like the crappy $20 keychain digital camera which he dedicated half of a peg board to. Jump on the keychain camera wave before everyone else does - Willie figured), but upon talking to him for 1/2 minute you realize the kid's just spewing lines from brochures. "The more zoom the better. This one features a 400x zoom, and it fits in your pocket!"
So nope, these type of stores will not survive, nor should they.
I don't want to pay more for the perk of dealing with someone I can "strike" up a conversation with.
I think the OP is worried about sad little stores like the "ye olde camera shop" down the street run by some old man with some old name names like "Willie or Art" who prefers to wear a photographer's vest as his work uniform. Above where Willie stands, hangs a big ass poster for Kodak Gold film and the color has faded over the years. His store would carry a sleuth of film cameras new and old in equal numbers, but doesn't attract a high-end enough clientele to justify carrying the likes of new Leica or Zeiss, or to a lesser extend - Bessa. It's safe to assume Willie will carry few crappy digital P&S in their stock to satisfy the "flavor of the month". (Or so he think it satisfies). However for some reason which will ultimately result in his business' demise, Willie decides his store will carry the full line of crappy digital P&S cameras from Kodak, and a few Polaroid digitals that has been out of production for a few years already. Due to their obsoleteness, the Polaroids are marked down 15% - indicated by a sign with hand written "15%" in black sharpie and a highlighter-green star outline for that "hey look at me" factor.
He would likely hire some kid named Kyle (who's currently taking "Photography 1" in high school to fulfill his free elective credits) to help out with sales because he figured the kid knows more about the "new" stuff (like the crappy $20 keychain digital camera which he dedicated half of a peg board to. Jump on the keychain camera wave before everyone else does - Willie figured), but upon talking to him for 1/2 minute you realize the kid's just spewing lines from brochures. "The more zoom the better. This one features a 400x zoom, and it fits in your pocket!"
So nope, these type of stores will not survive, nor should they.
I don't want to pay more for the perk of dealing with someone I can "strike" up a conversation with.
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V
varjag
Guest
Here in Bergen we have a small one-man store, Stasi Cameras. No relation to infamous East German secret agency, that's the owner's last name.
He is a nice friendly chap, mainly selling used film gear (tons of it) and supplies, and doesn't seem to be on decline. There are always some clients in and out. I bought my M4 from him, my friend got M6 and latest cron there; Antonio said that Leica stuff sells fairly quick. His prices more or less match those on keh.com, while providing a few months of warranty for more expensive pieces. That might help with sales (remember, we're talking Europe here).
I get my Tri-X from him as well, even though I could buy it a bit cheaper online. Nice to have some small chat, and try a lens or two on the camera.
It is hard to imagine such type of store doing well with digital though.
He is a nice friendly chap, mainly selling used film gear (tons of it) and supplies, and doesn't seem to be on decline. There are always some clients in and out. I bought my M4 from him, my friend got M6 and latest cron there; Antonio said that Leica stuff sells fairly quick. His prices more or less match those on keh.com, while providing a few months of warranty for more expensive pieces. That might help with sales (remember, we're talking Europe here).
I get my Tri-X from him as well, even though I could buy it a bit cheaper online. Nice to have some small chat, and try a lens or two on the camera.
It is hard to imagine such type of store doing well with digital though.
matt fury
Well-known
peterc said:
We have a couple of local stores left here. They've all been around since the beginning of time, it seems. One or two of them have gone under, however. I'm really big on "supporting the little guy", but it's awfully hard considering the price/selection/quality issues. The main local shop I deal with has a horrible film camera selection, and then if you find anything you want, it's up to 100% overpriced. Nothing new ever comes in really. The staff is alright to talk to sometimes, but I generally get that "circling sharks" feeling from them. They do have a pretty good repair guy in the back, but I could probably send to DAG or Krauter for the same money. They tried to sell me expired highspeed Provia one time, and then bitched when I wanted something fresh instead for $10/roll. Hell, I can't even rationalize buying film there, because there's nearly a $2 premium on Tri-X compared to Freestyle! But somehow, I think that they must be doing alright? There's always multiple guys working, new staff gets hired time to time, and half the time when I go in I have to wait to be served. I dunno, I don't get it.
TheHub
Well-known
cmedin said:
Most definitely.
I was in Calumet this morning and the guy behind the counter was telling me how film just doesn't move anymore. Too bad
He said once the average joe schmoe consumer on the street found P&S cameras and printing, it was all over for film.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Of course they can survive, they just need to be smart about it. If they can't compete with Big Box or Internet in camera sales alone, then supplement it with local activities, that's where the online or Big Corporation can't compete with them.
There are throngs of soccer moms/dads, teenagers, who are willing to pay for good, affordable photography workshops and classes. Then add festivals, raffles, meetings, tours, field trips, sponsor local community activities, the possibilities are endless.
Let people bring their digital p&s, teach them the basics, intermediate, advance, whatever, then introduce them to film as a viable alternative medium.
Actually, they are in the perfect place to do these kinds of things because they have a customer base. Like I said, the possibilities are endless. If they want to survive, that is.
It's not all doom and gloom, only if we think so.
There are throngs of soccer moms/dads, teenagers, who are willing to pay for good, affordable photography workshops and classes. Then add festivals, raffles, meetings, tours, field trips, sponsor local community activities, the possibilities are endless.
Let people bring their digital p&s, teach them the basics, intermediate, advance, whatever, then introduce them to film as a viable alternative medium.
Actually, they are in the perfect place to do these kinds of things because they have a customer base. Like I said, the possibilities are endless. If they want to survive, that is.
It's not all doom and gloom, only if we think so.
robert blu
quiet photographer
In italy not only small stores have difficult time: even larger ones are reducing their staff. One of the reason is the cheapest price made in big malls , many of them specialized in "electronic": from tv to audio gear, from computers to digital cameras. It happens people go in a small store where they find much more competence to make questions, to get informations etc and when they undesrstand what to buy go in a big mall and buy it at a lower price. Nor very nice, but is the reality. The "photographer" is not more seen as a specialist, times are changing...
robert
robert
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
My local photo shop changed into a wedding studio.
They have a little film, and a few consumer digital cameras.
And they still have a minilab, but it sees little use and I think when it needs an expensive repair they will get rid of it.
They have a little film, and a few consumer digital cameras.
And they still have a minilab, but it sees little use and I think when it needs an expensive repair they will get rid of it.
Xmas
Veteran
Answer - on borrowed time
None in local village, have to go to county town.
Noel
None in local village, have to go to county town.
Noel
javimm
Established
Here in Spain the small shops are not doing well also. There are some very known shops in Madrid, that have a lot of stuff, but their prices are high as can be. One shop have a dusty-rusty Leica M3, for 2000 euros!!. The other one has M6 for 1500 euros. I've seen it here for every kind of shop.
I play guitar too, and a lot of shops insist in having prices as high as 40% more of what you can pay in an EU online shop that gives you 5 day UPS shipping for free!. And we are living in the EU, united market. Go figure.
Those shops complain that they are loosing money to the online sellers. I couldn't care less. Lower your prices. It has been as this in Spain forever. Customers were always obliged to pay for the importer fees, whatever they were, and they were HIGH. Not for me anymore. I don't have to pay comissions to everyone with my money.
When I bought my Canon 350D, all the shops had prices between 750-800 euro. I bought it from a Spanish ebay guy who happened to live in my city. I paid 610 euros for it, with spanish warranty. He told me that he was selling the cameras like crazy.
I only buy film-developers in the camera stores now, and guitar strings in the local guitar stores. The rest of the money goes to the online shops, which has a quite knowledgable stuff too, and great service.
I play guitar too, and a lot of shops insist in having prices as high as 40% more of what you can pay in an EU online shop that gives you 5 day UPS shipping for free!. And we are living in the EU, united market. Go figure.
Those shops complain that they are loosing money to the online sellers. I couldn't care less. Lower your prices. It has been as this in Spain forever. Customers were always obliged to pay for the importer fees, whatever they were, and they were HIGH. Not for me anymore. I don't have to pay comissions to everyone with my money.
When I bought my Canon 350D, all the shops had prices between 750-800 euro. I bought it from a Spanish ebay guy who happened to live in my city. I paid 610 euros for it, with spanish warranty. He told me that he was selling the cameras like crazy.
I only buy film-developers in the camera stores now, and guitar strings in the local guitar stores. The rest of the money goes to the online shops, which has a quite knowledgable stuff too, and great service.
spyder2000
Dim Bulb
Having spent some time in the business quite a while back, the name of the game was and still is - service. If the small shop wants to survive, they'll have to promote themselves using their 'own' money, not co-op, and they'll have to offer classes for a fee to teach users how to make the most of their camera (d or f) and compositions.
Unfortunatley they won't have pockets deep enough to stock the breadth of gear the bog boxes can, so they'll have to be market savvy and stock what sells - in their area. They'll also have to stick to the 'one to show and one to go' philosophy.
It's the changing face of the market. In my town, one with a well-known art college, there are two stores and niether really has the breadth they used to. A wide choice of film doesn't exist. Sadly, neither of these stores is located in the area of town the college occupies. I think they've missed the boat on that call.
Unfortunatley they won't have pockets deep enough to stock the breadth of gear the bog boxes can, so they'll have to be market savvy and stock what sells - in their area. They'll also have to stick to the 'one to show and one to go' philosophy.
It's the changing face of the market. In my town, one with a well-known art college, there are two stores and niether really has the breadth they used to. A wide choice of film doesn't exist. Sadly, neither of these stores is located in the area of town the college occupies. I think they've missed the boat on that call.
R
RML
Guest
cmedin said:
I'm pretty realistic, I think, when I say they can't survive. Biggest problem is that they are NOT cheap. Most anything I might want to buy from them is more expesnive than in larger retail shops or on the internet. The only convenience these shops provide over the internet is that I can get things quicker, instead of having to wait a week or more for an internet order to arrive by mail. Other than that, they're doomed.
BTW, though I can see why people consider it a real loss, I don't shed a tear over it. A business that can't come up with a new "trick" to lure customers in (and their money out of their wallets) doesn't deserve to be in business.
ywenz
Veteran
spyder2000 said:
Having a poor college student customer base is hardly the business strategy of choice. Providing tutorial sessions won't work there either, because why would a kid who paid up the ass for art school be all giddy over free photography sessions along side a mom with 3 kids? They should close down shop today.
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