summar recoating (the dreaded cleaning marks...)

[Roger Vadim]

Hi everybody,

I just bought a old uncoated Summar 2/50 - it was a Bargain (22,- Euro) and it is my first Leitz lens!! It feeels great, heavy and looks deadcool. but it has the disease of the time: the dreaded cleaning marks (i.e. heavilly scratched). and although there are a lot of threads stating the opposite: it degrades the quality unbearable.
So my question is: is it worth sending the front element to ARAX for a coating job? is it difficult to disassemble the front lens? has anybody done it?

it is a nice lens and it is almost worthless like it is. would be nice to bring it back to live.

on the test roll i done some shots in a museum which came out very nice, but outdoors its useless, like shooting thru a can of milk.

any recomondations?
thanks,
Michael

 

[John Shriver]

Very hard lens to get the element out of, you need a lathe, and some skill, to get it out. See CRR Luton's site on this subject.

Also, substantial grinding will be needed to grind out the scratches, and you will have a lens that really doesn't perform like the original, and may not focus accurately due to changed focal length.

Cheaper to buy a good one. But challenging.

 

[Roger Vadim]

Thanks John,
that doesn't sound promising... what a pitty - the rear element is in pristine condition, like new, and it handles really nicely... (compared to all my FSU gear)
I'll have a look on CRR Lutons site...

What other LTM Lens would you consider? (seems i caught the virus...)

 

[Harry Lime]

Henry Scherer of Zeisscamera.com is of the same opinion. Repolishing changes the lens.

I also have a fairly beat up Summar, but regardless of the scratches it takes great pictures. Very romantic pictures, with lots of blooming highlights and glow. You know, the good stuff. You're better off finding a good hood for it.

 

[Ronald M]

Put a shade on it so you know it the scratches or reflections cause the flare.

Shooting outside from a room should serve well enough for a test shade.

 

[Limpovitj]

Is it hazy inside (it looks like it is from the pictures)? In my experience, that can be much worse than a scratched front element, even if it is badly scratched. Shine a flashlight through it from the front and have a look. With a good careful cleaning and repainting of the blackened edges of the elements, it could quite possibly be made into a reasonable performer - if it's used with a hood, that is.

I'd generally rather have heavy cleaning marks than light haze in a lens.

 

[Roger Vadim]

Thanks for all your help and suggestions!

I think it all ad up: the scratches/ cleaning marks on the front ellement are like one blur (the glass is uncoated and soft..) but, after unscrewing the front element, which is fairly simple, and did the flashlight inspection there is some haze and fine dust in the inside.
so my questions:

- how do i further disamsemble the lens? are there any tips on how to procede?
- what thread do i need for the hood.... i.e where do i find one measured it and its about 36 mm.

thanks for the help

 

[Xmas]

Please review...

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Bjwy

Noel

 

[Roger Vadim]

thanks Noel, very helpfull thread! This hood is gigantic: maybe the Summar needs that in order to work properly.
I'll think about a DIY solution as sugested in the thread, meanwhile I am trying to disasemble the lens for the haze issue.
And take the J8 instead...

 

[dll927]

Just out of curiosity: Some years ago, there was a movie director/producer or some such named Roger Vadim. Could you be one and the same???

 

[charjohncarter]

Here is a Summar 50mm f2.0 that had visible scratches. I stupidly sold it (because in wasn't perfect or was the IIIc, I sold with it). I guess you win some and loss some. I know I have.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=64107&ppuser=8685

 

[Ronald M]

Repolishing involves removing some glass. Even if you maintain the proper curve, you shorten the distance from front curve to rear of the element thus screwing it up.

 

[John Shriver]

The second front group also unscrews.

The rear cell is a very tight fit in the barrel. You would need to remove a few "flea sized" set screws, and use custom ring wrenches to get it out. Not threaded, just tight as all get out.

The rear element is screwed into the rear cell. Spanner wrench project.

Another thing that's important is the blackening on the inside edges of the two central groups. It fails and peels over time.

Don't feel too bad, my first Summar was an absolute abomination. It was advertized as a mess, but it was worse than I imagined. (Glops of epoxy were only part of the damage.)

But my second one is a gem, water clear when you look through it, although I had to clean several surfaces, and redo the black paint.

I never have built the custom hood, most of my Summar shooting has been on my Leica IIIa. I love it for traveling light with lens speed. I just recognize that the fast stops are for "emergencies".

 

[charjohncarter]

Did you shine a flashlight through the lens and see if there is haze. One of my old lenses had a very mild haze but it was horrible. I had it cleaned and now is perfect. Here is before and after:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5393121

that is before and here is after:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5635669

Someone said I should have left it in the before mode. It had a nice effect. But..............no.