Leica LTM How would you describe an old Summar?

[Dralowid]

Now, some pictures of the Summars in question.

The first picture shows rear elements. The chrome one on the left is uncoated, the central one has purple coating the one on the right has the harder blue coating.

DSC02972 by dralowid, on Flickr

The second picture shows the chrome one on the left having a well worn front element, the central black rim version has more or less lost the soft purple coating on the front element whereas the blue coating on the right hand side one has survived.

DSC02969 by dralowid, on Flickr

More of the same...

DSC02971 by dralowid, on Flickr

One could make the coated front elements 'look better' but that would risk the coating. On reflection (no pun intended) I think selling things like this unseen runs the risk of unhappy customers.

 

[Nitroplait]

On reflection (no pun intended) I think selling things like this unseen runs the risk of unhappy customers.

Absolutely.
Dare I say that a Summar is something you buy cheaply, and then realise how good it is. If I didn't get mine for peanuts, I would never have bought it - looking through it resembled my worst nightmare.
Even now, after I had it cla'd, it is still not a pretty sight if one shine a flashlight through it - and you know that that's the very first thing your buyer will do - who has ever heard of a buyer of a lens first putting it on a camera and only after seeing the results form an opinion?

 

[raid]

First roll of film with my Summar at a library.

Thank you, Erik. The Summar did well too. 🙂

 

[Erik van Straten]

Now, some pictures of the Summars in question.

A few months ago I bought a Leica IIIa with a Summar. I bought the camera and the lens only because the coated front lens of the Summar was nearly perfect. I received a near mint Leica IIIa with a near mint Summar.

The funny thing about the collapsible Summar is that the front lens unscrews easily (like a filter) and it will fit on all the other collapsible Summars. So one perfect front lens can replace many damaged ones.

gelatin silver print (summar 50mm f2) leica III

Erik.

 

[hap]

A while back I bought a IIIc with a summar on it. It does not a have a blue coating. In fact it is hard to see any coating. However, it's near perfectly clear (little dust) and not a scratch or mark on the front element. I guess I should try and match the serial number and the year made?

 

[Erik van Straten]

A while back I bought a IIIc with a summar on it. It does not a have a blue coating. In fact it is hard to see any coating. However, it's near perfectly clear (little dust) and not a scratch or mark on the front element. I guess I should try and match the serial number and the year made?

The Summars - they are prewar lenses - that are coated have been coated after the war. However, the majority of Summars is uncoated.

gelatin silver print (summar 50mm f2) leica III

Erik.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The black rim Summar is uncommon, and early one. The coating on both of these was added after the lenses were made. After WW-II several companies offered coating services.

They look in good condition, even with less than perfect glass. Use them to take some pictures in benign and harshly lit conditions and let the images speak for themselves.

 

[Pál_K]

In addition to providing a potential buyer with lots of photos of the actual lens being sold, I would mention the ease or difficulty of focusing and setting the aperture.

 

[hap]

The black rim Summar is uncommon, and early one. The coating on both of these was added after the lenses were made. After WW-II several companies offered coating services.

They look in good condition, even with less than perfect glass. Use them to take some pictures in benign and harshly lit conditions and let the images speak for themselves.

when you say black rim...I assume from looking at the pictures of the three lenses , only one actually has an all black rim and without ribbing.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

when you say black rim...I assume from looking at the pictures of the three lenses , only one actually has an all black rim and without ribbing.

I've seen the middle Summar described as "Black Rim". All three have Black Name Rings.

"Somewhat related", I just picked up a Wartime Sonnar in the Sn 272xxxx block that has a black rim. My wartime Sonnar that I've had for 12 years is a few units below it, has a chrome rim. I thought all the Sonnars in this block were chrome rim, and black started at a later block.

 

[Dralowid]

Yes the lens in the middle is what is known as 'black rim'. This is not a particularly uncommon variant which normally has no black left on the rim (for obvious reasons) and shows as scuffed brass.

The rarer variants are the early rigid versions and of course the 'tropen' lenses. Big money...

 

[Saganich]

I have two Summar's. One is just terrible, the front aftermarket coating is all muddled and there is a fair amount of fog (image 3 and 6 I believe). The one is better but had some balsam crazing and a bit of fog on the rear group. These images are all post-processed to rein in the glow as much as possible.

 

[jsrockit]

Scratched front element? Lightly fogged? A few bits and pieces floating around inside? Average for a Summar? Not bad for its age?

I'd be happy with this description if I was buying. Also, since it will have a distinct look (low contrast, glowing)..., I would add a photo or two showing the look wide open and then stopped down. It could be exactly what someone wants.