Zone system

[2tcreative]

In this digital age how many of you 35mm shooters use the zone system to pre-visualize and process your film? Or do you just have another 'system' you use (trial and error, etc.) for shooting b&w?

I like the concept of more control but not sure I am disciplined enough to use it. I have been shooting chromogenic b&w film but want more control so have decided to begin devloping my own film and scan it. Then manipulate in PS and laserjet print.

Your thought?

 

[rogue_designer]

it's hard with roll film - since ideally you should evaluate your + and - N numbers per exposure. I use the shorthand metering only version for my desired exposure knowing what my processing for that roll will be beforehand.

Not full zone system by any stretch - but a good way to understand exposure for desired outcome.

 

[ferider]

Whatever medium you use, you have to understand the dynamic
range of what you photograph and what in the picture you expose for.

Given that the dynamic range of digital is similar to slide film,
this should be even more important for digital than for film.

Roland.

 

[Finder]

You really don't need the zone system with roll film. Good exposures and consistant development will go a long way.

 

[Burkey]

Try a couple of Google searches for "Fred Picker". His Zone VI Workshop that was popular in the 70s is still valuable reading particularly when you attempt to use the Zone System with roll film. I met Fred a couple times back then and still consider him a strong influence on my work.
Roland - I couldn't agree more, simply getting a basic understanding of dynamic range is important regardless of medium, roll film, digital, etc.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

Fred Picker's book is an excellent source also "The Zone System for 35mm Photographers - A Basic Guide to Exposure Control " by Carson Graves ISBN 0-240-80203-9 (Focal Press) is worth a look.

 

[RObert Budding]

I only use the Zone System when shooting sheet film. When using roll film, I avoid extreme contrast situations that would require anything other than normal development.

 

[pesphoto]

My only problem with the zone system?
Requires too much thinking....just shoot and process for me. Im not trying to create works of art.

 

[navilluspm]

I read Ansel Adams series, and I think a modfied Zone system works with roll film. I use a spot meter to check different exposures and try to make my shot fall into place. Recently I have been having very good luck with this process. Whenever the sky is in a shot, I previsualize what I want to to look like. I usually put the blue sky, with white clouds, into zone 4. Many times everything else falls into place when i am using a yellow green filter.

Usually I pick a dominant part of the photo that I want a particular tone and expose the picture for that tone in the zone I want it. It doesn't necessarily have to be the subject.

But I am a newbie, and really have a lot more to learn. Hear are some recent examples of what I am talking about.

 

[2tcreative]

... Whenever the sky is in a shot, I previsualize what I want to to look like. I usually put the blue sky, with white clouds, into zone 4. Many times everything else falls into place when i am using a yellow green filter.

Is the filter necessary with PS workflow? Can't that be done to an extent using channels? If the negative is scanned as color or changed to rgb in PS can't you manipulate some of the contrast effect that you get with lens filters, i.e. yellow, green, red?

 

[navilluspm]

Here are two other examples of how placing zones helped with my exposure. Again, I am relatively new to this, so please excuse the lack of artistic value.

With the window shots I previsualized the hightlight and exposed for them.

 

[navilluspm]

Is the filter necessary with PS workflow? Can't that be done to an extent using channels? If the negative is scanned as color or changed to rgb in PS can't you manipulate some of the contrast effect that you get with lens filters, i.e. yellow, green, red?

I only have PS Elements so I can not use the channel mixer. I also only scan negatives to print a contact sheet and for posting on the internet. Otherwise I started using traditional printing. The only tweaking of these photos came in the in initial scan and resizing them for the internet. Sorry, I really don't know much and certainly not much about Photoshop.

 

[ferider]

Is the filter necessary with PS workflow? Can't that be done to an extent using channels? If the negative is scanned as color or changed to rgb in PS can't you manipulate some of the contrast effect that you get with lens filters, i.e. yellow, green, red?

You can but you loose dynamic range, equivalent to using a glass filter.

 

[2tcreative]

Sorry, I really don't know much and certainly not much about Photoshop.

Don't sell yourself short. I like the two images you posted! I feel you are ahead of me!

 

[Anupam]

The part of the zone system that doesn't work with rollfilm is varying development time to control contrast. But metering and placing of zones (given that you know you are suck with N development) is exactly the same.

I test all my film/dev combos using a densitometer and do the whole hog with sheet film. Not as dogma, but because for me it feels absolutely natural.

-A

 

[EmilGil]

The part of the zone system that doesn't work with rollfilm is varying development time to control contrast. But metering and placing of zones (given that you know you are suck with N development) is exactly the same.

I test all my film/dev combos using a densitometer and do the whole hog with sheet film. Not as dogma, but because for me it feels absolutely natural.

-A

Forgive me sir, but I think you have forgotten a crucial setting in your first sentence above. It should read:

The part of the zone system that doesn't work with rollfilm is varying development time to control the contrast of each shot individually. But metering and placing of zones (given that you know you are suck with N development) is exactly the same.

Also, you may very well use N+/- development with roll film but it will of course apply to all shots on that particular roll.

 

[Dektol Dan]

On a Roll

On a Roll

If all shots on the roll are shot in accordance with the zone system, a piece of film is a piece of film whether or not it has multiple images or not, and the zone sytem will be of benefit.

The zone system is a guide, nothing more. It is a mind set for training the eye more than anything. Once one can think in the 6 zones, and has the spot meter to fly it from the get go it is easy and not a chore at all.

The zone mind set is more important in post processing to me, because it teaches the photographer what to look for: the whitest white, the darkest dark and all the information in between in the shadows.

The zone system is for everybody, even digtal photographers. It is not for artists only and not a chore. It's just another way of learning how to see.

 

[rogue_designer]

Is the filter necessary with PS workflow? Can't that be done to an extent using channels? If the negative is scanned as color or changed to rgb in PS can't you manipulate some of the contrast effect that you get with lens filters, i.e. yellow, green, red?

Only if you shoot color film.

 

[Anupam]

Forgive me sir, but I think you have forgotten a crucial setting in your first sentence above. It should read:
Also, you may very well use N+/- development with roll film but it will of course apply to all shots on that particular roll.

Right you are. I assumed that bit was understood by anyone remotely familiar with the system. And I do sometimes do N minus and plus when I am lucky enough to shoot an entire roll in similar lighting conditions. Just the other day I makrked one down for N+, but it is rare.

-A

 

[RObert Budding]

"If all shots on the roll are shot in accordance with the zone system, a piece of film is a piece of film whether or not it has multiple images or not, and the zone sytem will be of benefit."

So, how do you vary development time when that single roll of film contains images that require differing development times?