Assaf
Well-known
I have the opportunity to buy a used Heliar 50/2 in good condition and price, and the current US Dollar/Shekel rate is low.
My budget for a 50mm lens is 300-400$ and I prefer modern non Leica to old Leica glass, so CV is the obvious choice. F2 is good enough for me, and the Nokton 50/1.5 looks too bulky to me (am I right about it?) so the Heliar seems a nice choice.
I know this issue has been discussed here millions of times, and I read most of it. However, I'd be happy to read experienced opinions about these issues:
1) I don't know anyone in the neighbourhood having this lens so I would have rely on opinions. How big is it and how easy to handle? My only reference is Ultron 35/1.7 so a comparison by means of size and ergonomics would be nice.
2) What's the collapsibility all about? What do I get from it? Is the lens "locked" when it's extended?
3) How easy is it to focus and how long is the focus round?
4) If you put the aperture issue aside, would you prefer the Heliar or a small Skopar? Personally I prefer long focus round and no focus tab.
5) (Obviously asking) how good is it wide open? Do you use it wide open without thinking twice or do you prefer stopping it down?
6) Why is this lens less popular than other CV lenses?
Any comment would be appreciated
Assaf
My budget for a 50mm lens is 300-400$ and I prefer modern non Leica to old Leica glass, so CV is the obvious choice. F2 is good enough for me, and the Nokton 50/1.5 looks too bulky to me (am I right about it?) so the Heliar seems a nice choice.
I know this issue has been discussed here millions of times, and I read most of it. However, I'd be happy to read experienced opinions about these issues:
1) I don't know anyone in the neighbourhood having this lens so I would have rely on opinions. How big is it and how easy to handle? My only reference is Ultron 35/1.7 so a comparison by means of size and ergonomics would be nice.
2) What's the collapsibility all about? What do I get from it? Is the lens "locked" when it's extended?
3) How easy is it to focus and how long is the focus round?
4) If you put the aperture issue aside, would you prefer the Heliar or a small Skopar? Personally I prefer long focus round and no focus tab.
5) (Obviously asking) how good is it wide open? Do you use it wide open without thinking twice or do you prefer stopping it down?
6) Why is this lens less popular than other CV lenses?
Any comment would be appreciated
Assaf
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yoyo22
Well-known
The Heliar is a wonderful lens - a real keeper. The build-quality speaks for itself, as it's way better than any other Voigtländer lens I handled yet.
To answer your questions:
1. / 2.: It's quite small, but it's heavy compared to other lenses of that size. It does not collapse that much, so it's not really getting much more compact when collapsed.
3. The focusing is not as easy as with other lenses. The focusing ring is a bit small for my taste. It does not come with a tab.
4. I just handled a Skopar once, but imho I prefer the Heliar - it's a real gem.
5. I do like the wide open bokeh of that lens a lot. I'm not that much into all the technical stuff, so I cannot comment on sharpness or contrast compared to other lenses. I just take pictures for my relaxation and enjoyment and the lens works well for this.
6. I think it's due to the fact that it's a limited edition. As far as I know it was just distributed in a anniversary edition set with either an R2M or R3M.
I hope this helps you to make up your mind (and buy that lens). Oh, and yes, the Nokton 50/1.5 is bulky indeed.
Pascal
To answer your questions:
1. / 2.: It's quite small, but it's heavy compared to other lenses of that size. It does not collapse that much, so it's not really getting much more compact when collapsed.
3. The focusing is not as easy as with other lenses. The focusing ring is a bit small for my taste. It does not come with a tab.
4. I just handled a Skopar once, but imho I prefer the Heliar - it's a real gem.
5. I do like the wide open bokeh of that lens a lot. I'm not that much into all the technical stuff, so I cannot comment on sharpness or contrast compared to other lenses. I just take pictures for my relaxation and enjoyment and the lens works well for this.
6. I think it's due to the fact that it's a limited edition. As far as I know it was just distributed in a anniversary edition set with either an R2M or R3M.
I hope this helps you to make up your mind (and buy that lens). Oh, and yes, the Nokton 50/1.5 is bulky indeed.
Pascal
BigSteveG
Well-known
Assaf,
I just sold mine last month after using it for about a year.
Its a great lens although depending on the price, you may want to look for a nice Hexanon M 50/2. I think its a better lens in terms of sharpness, build quality and convenience. Here are some thoughts.
1. My only other CV is a 25mm so can't compare here. Although the lens is compact and very light. It is compared to the Summicron collapsible.
2. The lens is "locked" when extended by a simple twist.
3. Focus is very quick. Throw (round) is short in in my opinion. I did like that about the lens.
4. No Skopar experience.
5. The lens is soft wide open and sharpens decently at 5.6. NOT as sharp as the Hexanon...Hex also offers a longer "round".
6. This lens was only offered w/ a camera as a kit. Dealers had to split them to sell the lens.
I fell out of love with the Heliar rather quickly. I think it's more gimmicky rather than serious in terms of optical quality. Check flickr.com for examples of the Heliar and the Hexanon. You may be surpised. Good luck.
I just sold mine last month after using it for about a year.
Its a great lens although depending on the price, you may want to look for a nice Hexanon M 50/2. I think its a better lens in terms of sharpness, build quality and convenience. Here are some thoughts.
1. My only other CV is a 25mm so can't compare here. Although the lens is compact and very light. It is compared to the Summicron collapsible.
2. The lens is "locked" when extended by a simple twist.
3. Focus is very quick. Throw (round) is short in in my opinion. I did like that about the lens.
4. No Skopar experience.
5. The lens is soft wide open and sharpens decently at 5.6. NOT as sharp as the Hexanon...Hex also offers a longer "round".
6. This lens was only offered w/ a camera as a kit. Dealers had to split them to sell the lens.
I fell out of love with the Heliar rather quickly. I think it's more gimmicky rather than serious in terms of optical quality. Check flickr.com for examples of the Heliar and the Hexanon. You may be surpised. Good luck.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I owned one for about 5 months. It was awesome, not gimmicky at all. Why did I sell it? Because I always forget to uncollaspe the lens. Operater error. But it is one cool lens.
Assaf
Well-known
Thanks for the commets.
Thanks for the commets.
Pascal, I get the feeling that you like this lens a lot. Do you have any examples of pictures taken with it? Do you use it for color or BW?
Steve, what you said about the Hexanon is interesting. How much should such a lens cost? When was it manufactured? Currently I shoot only with 35 lens and am not in a rush to buy a 50mm lens. However, I'll buy a lens if I find a good opportunity.
Akiva, how do you get along with the bulkiness of the Nokton? Can you compare the sizes of the Heliar and the 40mm Nokton?
BTW, the attached shot taken a week ago in Amuka (M6+Ultron 35/1.7) is dedicated to you.
Thanks for the commets.
Pascal, I get the feeling that you like this lens a lot. Do you have any examples of pictures taken with it? Do you use it for color or BW?
Steve, what you said about the Hexanon is interesting. How much should such a lens cost? When was it manufactured? Currently I shoot only with 35 lens and am not in a rush to buy a 50mm lens. However, I'll buy a lens if I find a good opportunity.
Akiva, how do you get along with the bulkiness of the Nokton? Can you compare the sizes of the Heliar and the 40mm Nokton?
BTW, the attached shot taken a week ago in Amuka (M6+Ultron 35/1.7) is dedicated to you.
Attachments
KEH
Well-known
As noted in another thread, I really like the slightly soft quality at F2.0
I usually keep it extended when walking around, which could lead to dust problems eventually.
Cheers,
Kirk
I usually keep it extended when walking around, which could lead to dust problems eventually.
Cheers,
Kirk
Assaf
Well-known
Thanks Kirk,
did you attach a picture? if so, I can't see it
did you attach a picture? if so, I can't see it
BigSteveG
Well-known
Well maybe "gimmicky" was the wrong term.....
Well maybe "gimmicky" was the wrong term.....
but I think the Hexanon is a much finer lens. Here are 2 examples. The horse is wide open at 2.0. The wheel is somewhere between 8.0-16. I hope these are big enough to see. I'll also try to post an example of the absolutely stunning boke of this lens. The Heliar is a good lens. It's compact, light and produces good results. I just think the Hexanon is much better. I've seen them used here for $250.00 or so. They go up to $450-500 in mint consition w/ box and leather lens case. The build is superior to the Heliar (which is pretty good itself).
Well maybe "gimmicky" was the wrong term.....
but I think the Hexanon is a much finer lens. Here are 2 examples. The horse is wide open at 2.0. The wheel is somewhere between 8.0-16. I hope these are big enough to see. I'll also try to post an example of the absolutely stunning boke of this lens. The Heliar is a good lens. It's compact, light and produces good results. I just think the Hexanon is much better. I've seen them used here for $250.00 or so. They go up to $450-500 in mint consition w/ box and leather lens case. The build is superior to the Heliar (which is pretty good itself).
Attachments
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BigSteveG
Well-known
Here's a boke shot.....
Here's a boke shot.....
don't remember the f-stop. Maybe 2.8-4.0. Not as contrasty as I like, but that's my poor developing skills. The foliage in the background "dissolves" nicely. The couple in back are well defined, but blurry enough for an artsy interpretation. Let me know what you think.
Here's a boke shot.....
don't remember the f-stop. Maybe 2.8-4.0. Not as contrasty as I like, but that's my poor developing skills. The foliage in the background "dissolves" nicely. The couple in back are well defined, but blurry enough for an artsy interpretation. Let me know what you think.
Attachments
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KirkH
Newbie
Assaf,
For some reason my embedded pbase photo is not showing up. Here is the link to the gallery (all shot with R-D1 and CV 50/2 Heliar):
http://www.pbase.com/kirkh/eedp9
Cheers,
Kirk
For some reason my embedded pbase photo is not showing up. Here is the link to the gallery (all shot with R-D1 and CV 50/2 Heliar):
http://www.pbase.com/kirkh/eedp9
Cheers,
Kirk
mackigator
Well-known
CV 50/2 Heliar wide open
CV 50/2 Heliar wide open
Shot at F2. Kodak BW400CN:http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/406366067/
Shot at F2. Fuji Sensia 400: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/377750597/
Updated the links so they work now!
CV 50/2 Heliar wide open
Shot at F2. Kodak BW400CN:http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/406366067/
Shot at F2. Fuji Sensia 400: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/377750597/
Updated the links so they work now!
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Fritz K.
Member
Hi,
just for a comparison size wise i made two pictures. They show the Heliar next to the 35mm Ultron and the 50mm Skopar lenses.
The Heliar is certainly a good lens with impressive build quality. But i will sell it because
a. i love my 50mm Summarit.
b. i do not like the collapsilbe feature of the Heliar.
Regarding the focussing, the Skopar is easier to handle because of the large tab on the focus ring. No prob for me, but you don´t like it. But did you give that a try . . . ?
have a nice weekend
Fritz
just for a comparison size wise i made two pictures. They show the Heliar next to the 35mm Ultron and the 50mm Skopar lenses.
The Heliar is certainly a good lens with impressive build quality. But i will sell it because
a. i love my 50mm Summarit.
b. i do not like the collapsilbe feature of the Heliar.
Regarding the focussing, the Skopar is easier to handle because of the large tab on the focus ring. No prob for me, but you don´t like it. But did you give that a try . . . ?
have a nice weekend
Fritz
Attachments
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x-ray
Veteran
Fritz:
Thanks for the comparison photos. I have a Nokton and absolutely love it and was considering the Skopar 2.5 for a small travel kit. In reality it looks like all three lenses are really closer in size than I thought. With the hood removed the Nokton isn't really a very large lens. It's fatter in diameter and stubby which gives it a bulky look but it's not.
Thanks for the comparison photos. I have a Nokton and absolutely love it and was considering the Skopar 2.5 for a small travel kit. In reality it looks like all three lenses are really closer in size than I thought. With the hood removed the Nokton isn't really a very large lens. It's fatter in diameter and stubby which gives it a bulky look but it's not.
Assaf
Well-known
Well, than you all.
Fritz, the comparative photos are really helpful.
Mackigator - I can see your flickr but can't get to the two attachments without signing in, should it be this way?
Too more questions -
1) It seems to me that the Heliar+hood is quite big. Am I right?
2) I'm getting the feeling from what I read that the collapsible feature is more gimmick, or maybe better said, a technological demonstation. The size is not dramatically reduced collapsing, some people don't un-collapse, and it's more prone to dust than regular lenses. S
Is it any good for other things?
You've all been very helpful, thanks
Assaf
Fritz, the comparative photos are really helpful.
Mackigator - I can see your flickr but can't get to the two attachments without signing in, should it be this way?
Too more questions -
1) It seems to me that the Heliar+hood is quite big. Am I right?
2) I'm getting the feeling from what I read that the collapsible feature is more gimmick, or maybe better said, a technological demonstation. The size is not dramatically reduced collapsing, some people don't un-collapse, and it's more prone to dust than regular lenses. S
Is it any good for other things?
You've all been very helpful, thanks
Assaf
pdx138
Established
The hood is very large compared to other CV lens hoods.
Being collapsable does save a little space. It might be the difference that justifies taking it as a travel lens over another 50/2. It is certainly smaller than my Planar even when not collapsed and much smaller collapsed.
Personally, I don't like the ergonomics. I found the combination of a slightly long focusing throw with the narrow, hard to grip and kind of sharp focusing ring to be uncomfortable to use.
On smaller lenses I like a focusing tab. On bigger ones (like the Planar), I don't need a tab. On this one, I think it would have been improved by a small summitar-type tab.
I do like the results I've seen from this lens though.
Note: I don't own this lens, I was just playing with one belonging to a friend. So maybe the ergonomics are something you can grow accustomed to.
Being collapsable does save a little space. It might be the difference that justifies taking it as a travel lens over another 50/2. It is certainly smaller than my Planar even when not collapsed and much smaller collapsed.
Personally, I don't like the ergonomics. I found the combination of a slightly long focusing throw with the narrow, hard to grip and kind of sharp focusing ring to be uncomfortable to use.
On smaller lenses I like a focusing tab. On bigger ones (like the Planar), I don't need a tab. On this one, I think it would have been improved by a small summitar-type tab.
I do like the results I've seen from this lens though.
Note: I don't own this lens, I was just playing with one belonging to a friend. So maybe the ergonomics are something you can grow accustomed to.
photophorous
Registered User
I have the Heliar and the 35 PII lens, and I much prefer the ergonomics of the Heliar. It's not perfect, but I don't like the tab on the pancake lens focus ring, or the ears on the aperture ring. Collapsing the lens makes it smaller. How could that be bad? It's not a big difference, but it's smaller.
Judging from example photos I've seen taken with the Hexanon, I think that lens is probably sharper than the Heliar wide open. But, I love the Heliar's bokeh. That makes up for it to me, and once stopped down a little, it is a very sharp lens.
This link will take you to all of my Heliar photos on flickr. You shouldn't have to sign in to see them. http://www.flickr.com/photos/photophore/tags/cv502heliar/
Paul
Judging from example photos I've seen taken with the Hexanon, I think that lens is probably sharper than the Heliar wide open. But, I love the Heliar's bokeh. That makes up for it to me, and once stopped down a little, it is a very sharp lens.
This link will take you to all of my Heliar photos on flickr. You shouldn't have to sign in to see them. http://www.flickr.com/photos/photophore/tags/cv502heliar/
Paul
kshapero
South Florida Man
Nokton is a little fatter. Nice fit, but the Heliar was sweet.Assaf said:
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
photophorous said:
Yes indeed, the size of the Heliar when collapsed is significantly smaller. I find it useful, for example to pack the lens in the ever ready case with the hood on.
Cheers,
Abbazz
The Heliar Classic is quite small but heavier than you'd expect from its size. It collapses about 1cm, and even when collapsed the lens does not intrude into the mount opening of the body. I have the 50 Skopar too, and the lenses seem similar in some respects, though the Skopar is a 7-element design. Amazing that Cosina was able to create a 50mm f2 Heliar, as this 5-element design has historically been seen as more suitable for medium-large format, and (as with the Tessar) not suited to wide apertures. So this was an optical coup; fastest Heliar ever made, and a short production run at that. With only 6 multi-coated air-glass surfaces, contrasty and very resistant to flare.
Like the 50 Skopar, the Heliar Classic is solid, mostly brass, extremely well-made as the first Voightlander-branded lens produced after Cosina began making the Zeiss lenses, and both have "pleasant character" as a higher priority than extreme sharpness.
I've never had a collapsible lens before, and did not view this feature as desirable. But it's ok; I just leave the lens extended and it's still small. Minimum focus is 1m, somewhat a disadvantage, as the Skopar gets down to .75m.
I know you can't adequately assess the full potential of a lens at this low resolution, but here's a photo with the Heliar shot nearly wide open.
Like the 50 Skopar, the Heliar Classic is solid, mostly brass, extremely well-made as the first Voightlander-branded lens produced after Cosina began making the Zeiss lenses, and both have "pleasant character" as a higher priority than extreme sharpness.
I've never had a collapsible lens before, and did not view this feature as desirable. But it's ok; I just leave the lens extended and it's still small. Minimum focus is 1m, somewhat a disadvantage, as the Skopar gets down to .75m.
I know you can't adequately assess the full potential of a lens at this low resolution, but here's a photo with the Heliar shot nearly wide open.
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mackigator
Well-known
I updated my links in the earlier post.