scanning color negatives for the first time - help!

[Assaf]

So far I only shot BW, but somehow a few rolls of Superia 100 got into my camera. Now, I try to scan them and I'm in a mess. I don't manage to balance the colors and I get wierd color shifts.

I use V700 scanner and Vuescan software, though also tried Epson scan and Silverfast and got similar colors.
In Vuescan I choose film type "generic" and color balance - white balance and scan to dng.
Then open the dng in PS and balance the white using costum white balance.
Then I get the attached colors, very saturated, very wierd, I assure you, buses in Tel Aviv are plain red 🙂

So, what am I doing wrong? I guess that minilabs very easily get balanced colors so why shouldn't I?
Or maybe I just don't know how color film looks like?

Thank you all and good night
Assaf

 

[RayPA]

So far I only shot BW, but somehow a few rolls of Superia 100 got into my camera. Now, I try to scan them and I'm in a mess. I don't manage to balance the colors and I get wierd color shifts.

I use V700 scanner and Vuescan software, though also tried Epson scan and Silverfast and got similar colors.
In Vuescan I choose film type "generic" and color balance - white balance and scan to dng.
Then open the dng in PS and balance the white using costum white balance.
Then I get the attached colors, very saturated, very wierd, I assure you, buses in Tel Aviv are plain red 🙂

So, what am I doing wrong? I guess that minilabs very easily get balanced colors so why shouldn't I?
Or maybe I just don't know how color film looks like?

Thank you all and good night
Assaf

The first time I scanned color using Vuescan I was shocked. Scanning color is not easy at first, but try using the presets. I'm pretty sure there's a Fuji one that'll work for Superia 100. You'll have to experiment a little.

Make a Preview. Then use the Ctrl-click method (on a Mac) of finding the white balance. Find a neutral or highlight spot, press and hold Ctrl and click that spot. The WB adjusts accordingly. You may have click around in several different spots to find a satisfactory WB. Then, adjust curves and points until you get something you like. Then, SAVE that setting, using File->Save Option. Name it something descriptive (like FujiSuperia100 😉 ). Open it again the next time you scan Fuji Superia and build on it.

One thing about Vuescan, I think you'll find that you will get some of the most realistic/actual/accurate color scans with it. It's not all pretweaked with contrast, saturation, and sharpening, and that can be shocking at first.

🙂

edit: BTW, I don't think you're too far off on your scans. They seem a little cool and flat, but you can fix that.

 

[JJW]

???

???

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

What color shifts? The whites look basically white.

The colors don't appear saturated at all... in fact, they seem to be muted a bit.

I would suggest you shoot tests with a Kodak Color Chart and calibrate your technique to obtain a faithful reproduction of the colors and tones on the chart.

 

[d_ross]

Simply alter the colour balance to something you like in preview.

 

[Assaf]

Thanks

Thanks

Well, I understand from your replies that it's basically a white balance issue. I prefer the white balance tool of the PS raw converter, and I think I managed to improve a bit.
P.S. JJW, I assume that you are trying to help, but I don't think that your tone is appropriate

 

[d_ross]

Assaf, its more of a colour balance thing than a white balance thing I think, also the film you used could have had a colour shift for some reason. remember there is no correct perfect colour, make them look the way you want them to look. I think you will have more robust files to work with and print from if you do these correctiions in prescan, and then fine tune in photoshop.

Good luck

 

[ZorkiKat]

Assaf

One thing about scanning colour negatives- regardless of hardware or software used- is never to expect to get the hues/colours/whites right with the first output. Even when the so-called 'film profiles' are used.

So many factors come into play. What the hardware 'sees' and how the software interprets it are different from what eyes and brains expect - yours and those of the viewers- them to be.

Even the profiles aren't always reliable. The negative samples they were calibrated against do not always conform to what you have on hand, even if the brand and type are the same. The quality dyes which form in negatives are always subject to processing and even batch factors.

For best results, scans need to be tweaked in photoediting software.

🙂

Jay

 

[Athena]

First thought is why do you seem embarassed that a "few rolls" of color film "got" into your camera?

But your pic posts are not so out of balance as to suggest there is anything particularly wrong that a quick click in PS under the Auto Adjust won't "fix".

If you want nearly non-adjustable color pics from film through your scanner I suggest you try Kodak's Portra film (the new version). It is optimized for scanning. I believe that Fuji has similar color neg film available.

My experience with the Portra's is that they require almost no adjustment for color balance in PS (if you just "test" with the Auto Adjust function you see little, if any, changes).

Overall, if you like using color film (as I do) but prefer to scan your negs - I think you will find the Portra to be quite satisfying. I'm coming to think of it as a "hybrid" film.

Good luck; shoot lots of film.

 

[Film dino]

hello Assaf, I've taken the liberty of trying to correct the colour balance in your shot containing the bus- is this version more in keeping with colours in the original scene?

My experience of scanning colour negatives is that adjusting colour balance is best done post-scan

David

 

[Assaf]

Well....

Well....

reading the comments I tend to conclude that the colors are more or less OK and the problem is with me....

in all shots the white is balanced because I used costum white balance. However, the colors don't look "realistic" to me. In the examples posted the color of the bus is different when seen in my naked eye and so are the blue colors in the second one. Maybe I'm just used to digital colors.

Film Dino - the colors look better in your version but the bus still looks wierd to me.

Athena - I'm not embarassed at all using color films, I just didn't plan on doing that. I'm used to shooting BW and getting dull and flat images, instead I shot color and got dull flat and wierd images 🙂
Isn't Potra a slide film?

Anyway, does this one look OK to you? It looks prety wierd to me - wals too yellow, road too magenta

 

[keoj]

Assaf,

I shoot and scan slides most of the time. A couple of weeks ago, I shot and scanned a roll of Reala and the entire process just drove me back to slides. The level of effort I had to put into color balance was significant. The only thing I can tell you is that I think that I finally dialed it in and they came out good but the workflow was levels (white point, etc.), curves and then Brightness/Contrast. Good luck. I'm back with Astia.

keoj

 

[mfogiel]

Let's go to the basics:
in Vuescan go to Input tab, select colour negative and 48bit, then go to Filter tab, select infrared clean Medium, then go toColour tab, select colour balance Manual and film vendor Fuji and film brand Superia and film type 100, then go to Output tab and select TIFF file, 48bit RGB, Tiff size reduction 1, Tiff compression OFF, Tiff profile tagged, and make a preview, display the histogram at the bottom left and check if the black and white point arrows are correctly positioned at the extremes, adjust the crop to avoid pure black or white areas outside of the negative and scan. If this does not work, look for an area that should have been pure white, black or grey, position the mouse over and left click, this will set the colour balance neutral on that colour. If all fails keep on tweaking settings. Vuescan is great, you will find the right way to get out of trouble.

 

[Ronald M]

They are not that bad really. I think the contrast is too high and color saturation is too high.

I run my scanner in a totally manual mode and save the color balance settings.
I find I get better color consistently. Recall the same settings for the next frame.

Keep contrast and color low from the scanner and raise it in photoshop. It is easier to go up than down.

 

[shadowfox]

Assaf, you're somehow getting extraneous magenta/purplish hue. I have several shots like these with Superia where the purple hue comes out of nowhere, the only thing that I can think of is underexposure (even slightly). I've never seen this kind of hue with Kodak film. Is the film expired?

My advice is to keep shooting several more roles, try Kodak next time and see if it makes a difference. I have a hunch that your scanner and software is working just fine.

And I also adjust my colors after the image is scanned. In Picasa, or LightZone, or iPhoto.

Here's an example of the purple hue similar to yours, I didn't correct it because I kinda like the psychadelic look 🙂

 

[Assaf]

Thank you all!
mfogiel, thanks for the elaborate exlanation. My Vuescan doesn't have Fuji Superia, only Super G, Super HG and Super HR. Should I use one of them?
sitemistic - I am using Photoshop to correct the scans. I even have the RAW converter, not that it helps me much.

A friend of mine recommended me the following method for color and leverl balance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se3htZz2noo

Didn't do much good to me however. Well, maybe the bus really had a psychadelic color?

Thank you all. You've been very kind and helpful
I love this place 🙂

 

[mfogiel]

Assaf, it's strange, my Vuescan has the superia profile, maybe you should check on their site if you can find it somewhere, if not just try the other fuji profiles and see what you get.

 

[d_ross]

I have to agree Portra is a great film to scan and is designed to be so.
Perhaps the film you are using has been damaged by heat or age or something, the magenta colour shift could imply heat damaged film. Still whether you make colour corrections pre scan or post scan you must be able to get these to a colour you like. have you tried selective colour or replace colour in photoshop?

 

[d_ross]

here is your bus shot using selective colour to remove cyan in the red channel, and a little magenta and blue out in overall image using simple coloiur balance tool.

 

[d_ross]

and then with a little cureve correction in the magenta channel

 

[warren1960]

Assaf, you've been givein some pretty good advice. Remember our eyes are especially sensitive to red, and much more aware of subtile shifts within the red part of the spectrum. Any color matrix is often characterized by how it renders "reds" and this includes not only films, but papers, inks and electronic media.

I think Vuescan really is optimized for color negatives, with an uncanny ability to extract the fullest range of tones obtainable on your hardware. Of course this looks like a real mess at first, especially when compared to an initial scan of a slide. But look closely and you'll see that there is just tons of information compressed in there. I never knew the potential locked in all my old negs, even the "happy snaps" until I spent time in Vuescan. And that's the big drawback . . . film scanning takes WAY too long.