Squeegee after photo-flo?

[PATB]

I just started developing my own film in the darkroom of a local community college. While most of the negatives turn out OK, some have scratches in them. I cannot yet figure out where the scratches are being introduced but am thinking of minimizing handling of the negatives.

Right now, I "squeegee" the negatives with two fingers after I dip the reel in photo-flo for about a minute. I am thinking of skipping the squeegee step and, after photo-flow, (a) just shake the reel to remove excess water, (b) remove the negatives from the reel, and (c) then hang the negatives in the drying cabinet.

Bad idea?

 

[RayPA]

I squeegee with my fingers. I've also used a photo-quality sponge squeegee in the past, too. Why are you considering switching technique? Are you seeing artifacts on your negatives?

🙂

 

[PATB]

Hi Ray,

I am thinking of not using any squeegee at all (not even with my fingers) in the hopes of getting rid of scratches. I get thin line scratches parallel to landscape mode in some of my negatives, and I suspect this is due to my bad handling of the film after photo-flo.

Pat

 

[planetjoe]

I have the feeling it'd be hard to get perfectly parallel scratches due to "finger squeegee" action - if in fact they are parallel; you didn't say. It just strikes me that this process (which I do too, by the way) is fairly "organic" by nature, and would leave a more wavy signature in the scratches. I could be wrong, though.

What I'd look to is either:

a) your camera/film transport: is there grit in the film gate/pressure plate area?
b) film developing reels: do you use plastic "ratcheting" spiral reels?

Just a couple ideas. I actually think squeegeeing isn't totally necessary, so you could probably drop it safely and see what happens. Good luck.


Cheers,
--joe.

 

[BSchall]

I dip my fingers in the Phto Flo then squeegee the film lightly. Never had a problem.

Are the scratches consistent on all your film or just every now and then? If they are consistent, then maybe it's something in your camera. Blow out the inside of the camera and check the pressure plate.

 

[like2fiddle]

Are you using pre-loadeed (retail) film cassettes, or are you loading your own?

 

[RayPA]

I forget whether squeegeeing is actually recommended/required with photoflo (?). I've been squeegeeing since "day one." 🙂 I would be worried about getting other artifacts from not squeegeeing. Hmmm. BTW, nice to see another Bay Area member. If it's not too late: Welcome to the forum.

.

 

[Finder]

I never squeegee my film. Just a dunk in photoflo and hang - that is what photoflo is for after all. (You don't need to shake.)

If you water is not clean and has particles in it, you distilled water for your photoflo.

 

[Jonathan R]

If you use photo-flo and shake the film HARD while it's in the reel, you definitely don't need to squeegee, which as you say is one cause of lengthwise scratches. However there are other possible causes such as worn-out velvet in film cassettes (if you re-load), or a scratched pressure plate in your camera.

 

[PATB]

Wow, you guys are great!

The scratches are not really parallel, what I meant to say was that they are mostly lengthwise. But some are not! They are also not there all the time. Sometimes I get super clean negatives for the entire roll, sometimes there are scratches on one or two -- but on the best ones on that roll :bang:

I use pre-loaded tri-x and plastic reels (Paterson Tank). Sometimes, when I have trouble loading the reel I have to restart. I am going to try to minimize this too by getting my own reels; the ones in the college sometimes jam.

I am new to this so am trying to minimize the variables by not performing certain steps.

Thank you all.

 

[sircarl]

I never squeegee my film after dipping it in wetting agent. And I put the film in the agent only after it's been removed from the reel, since my Jobo reels come apart to permit this. After the dip is done, I take the film at both ends and stretch it taut (I have long arms). I give it a few gentle snaps to shake off excess water, then hang it to dry. Since I started doing all this I have had NO scratches or drip marks on my film.

 

[nikon_sam]

PATB,

Try drying a few rolls without squeezing the photo-flo off and see what you get...
The problem could be happening while loading the film, if you are having problems loading the reels and have to start over and over...This could be the cause of the scratches...
I use the "Two-Finger" method and haven't seen any scratches...
Film emulsion left in water or photo-flo for too long can get very soft so watch for that too...
Good Luck and keep on trying...

 

[MikeL]

PATB, which side of the negative are your scratches on?

 

[Roger Hicks]

Whichever you're not doing is better and introduces fewer scratches -- unless you are the I AM ALWAYS RIGHT type.

This is why I oscillate between them (fingers, rubber squeegee, salad spinner, nothing, etc.) Over the last 40+ years I've tried most approaches including a wet chamois (kept wet when when not in use, and it gets SLIMY). All are about equal in advantages and disadvantages. But as Sam says, why not try an alternative?

Right now my drill (which gives me very clean negs) is Ilford wash sequence in the local very hard water; 20 more inversions in distilled water; final bath in distilled water + wetting agent at about 1/2 recommended strength; shake, no squeegee. I then dry in a cabinet with forced but unheated air.

Mike's point (above) is important: base side scratches are almost always caused by camera or cassette; film side can be either. Non-parallel scratches on the emulsion side point to dirty fingers, to me.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[PATB]

I will check out tonight which side of the negative is scratched. I will try the no squeegee step after photo-flo and see what happens. Hope I don't induce another problem.

As an aside, I just started developing my own film and printing in the darkroom the last three weeks and love every minute of it. Long live film!

 

[Solinar]

The whole point of using Photo-Flo is to not have to squeegee, sponge or chamois.

With regards to hard water, prior to the rinse in Photo-Flo do a 30 second rinse in deionized or filtered water. Also, use deionized or filtered water when making the Photo-Flo solution. The deionized water cost about $.35 a gallon from a vending machine at my local grocery store.

Don't give up yet, you've already have a major portion of the learning curve behind you.

 

[jan normandale]

I never squeegee my film. Just a dunk in photoflo and hang - that is what photoflo is for after all. (You don't need to shake.)

If you water is not clean and has particles in it, you distilled water for your photoflo.

I'm with this technique.. works just fine for me

 

[Trius]

I am with Roger with regards to using only 1/2 the concentration of a wetting agent. My experience with Photo-Flo is 1:400 is better than 1:200, but that may be dependent on your local water. HOWEVER

... with the last rolls I developed, I noticed that my Photo-Flo was cloudy; it had what looked like bacterial or fungal growth in it, so I didn't dare use it. Since all the water in my process is essentially distilled, I just used that for final rinse. The negs were SPOTLESS. (I say "essentially distilled", since it is not reagent grade; I use water out of my dehumidifier and double filter it. It is essentially free, and probably as pure if not purer than distilled water bought at the supermarket.)

I have not squeeged my negatives at all in the last 20+ years. I don't trust ANYTHING that touches the film while it is wet, whether a "photo sponge", chamois, or my fingers. Why tempt fate?

Anyone need a partially full bottle of Photo-Flo stock solution?

 

[Ronald M]

Never squeegee, sponge, wipe, or anything else.

P fjow is a wetting agent designed to drip off without leaving marks. Start at 1:200 per direction. Becareful if if you make up your own dilution. Some think using less promotes a cleaner neg, where as it actually makes it worse. The water marks are disolved minerals in the water, not p flow.

If you get marks. use filtered water, deionized water, or steam distilled in that order.

Sooner or later you will drag a peice of debris down a roll damaging every frame. It can be a chunk of something in the water or a flaked piece of emulsion. or dirt from inside the developing tank, or even some precipitated silver from fix. I recomment never reusing fix for this reason. Precipitated silver does not wash off film.

Good luck.

 

[photophorous]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but how long does Photoflo last undiluted? I've been getting minor scratches lately and have changed nothing about my process. Just wondering if old photoflo could have less lubricating qualities or something. I've been using my fingers to squeegee, but I'll probably stop after reading this.

Thanks,
Paul