akptc
Shoot first, think later
Been thinking I want the full frame and low light performance of the Canon 5D. Bad news is I know next to nothing of Canon DSLRs, certainly not enouh to make an educated buy decision. Would greatly appreciate some help in picking out a starter kit. I'd use it mostly for sports and nature photography, some of it in low light.
My guess is I would want to cover the 24/28-300mm range to get started. What lenses, preferably under $1.5K total, should I look into? I don't really have a budget, will make it up as I go but I'd of coure prefer to spend as little as possible.
For example, is this kit a decent one?
My guess is I would want to cover the 24/28-300mm range to get started. What lenses, preferably under $1.5K total, should I look into? I don't really have a budget, will make it up as I go but I'd of coure prefer to spend as little as possible.
For example, is this kit a decent one?
saxshooter
Well-known
No. Those two lens are really nothing to write home about!
If it is sports/nature that you want to do, they why do you need a FF digital SLR? The Canon 40D, for $1200, is an excellent camera and will give you a little extra reach with its 1.6 crop.
I've been eyeing a 5D myself, but you will want to put the best glass that you can in front of that excellent sensor. Many do so with fixed focal lengths, and the L series zooms.
If it is sports/nature that you want to do, they why do you need a FF digital SLR? The Canon 40D, for $1200, is an excellent camera and will give you a little extra reach with its 1.6 crop.
I've been eyeing a 5D myself, but you will want to put the best glass that you can in front of that excellent sensor. Many do so with fixed focal lengths, and the L series zooms.
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akptc
Shoot first, think later
saxshooter said:
- I was afraid that was the case
saxshooter said:
- I've looked at the 40D and it really sounds like a fast AF performer and v. good camera in its own right. But, well, I've seen what a FF dslr can do and want one
gavinlg
Veteran
The 5d is an excellent low light camera - the new nikon d3 may be a little better actually, but still costs over twice as much.
For lenses, and a large coverage, have a look at an 50 1.8 mk2, an 85 1.8, 17-40 f4L, and possibly a 70-200 f4L for the longer end. Theres no shame in buying second hand either. You might possibly be able to get all these for under 1.5Kus if you buy carefully.
All are superb lenses.
For lenses, and a large coverage, have a look at an 50 1.8 mk2, an 85 1.8, 17-40 f4L, and possibly a 70-200 f4L for the longer end. Theres no shame in buying second hand either. You might possibly be able to get all these for under 1.5Kus if you buy carefully.
All are superb lenses.
saxshooter
Well-known
I concur with the 70-200 f4 (non-IS version), which is a little over $500 with the current rebate. Would be an excellent complement on a 5D with an RF kit. I'd get one of those if I ever got the 5D (or its impending replacement -- the camera is over 2 years old and I'm optimistic. Although some believe that a replacement may be further down the road since the $8k 1ds III is just arriving).
Something to keep in mind with second hand Canon gear -- if you know its provenance, then OK, but I've professional experience with Canon EOS glass for the past 11 years and know that they do wear out and "lose sharpness" with years of use.
Something to keep in mind with second hand Canon gear -- if you know its provenance, then OK, but I've professional experience with Canon EOS glass for the past 11 years and know that they do wear out and "lose sharpness" with years of use.
aizan
Veteran
can't go wrong with a 1dmkii/n and 70-200/2.8 is.
RF-Addict
Well-known
I use the 24-105 f4 L IS on my 5D and it is practically glued to that body. It covers 90% of the focal lengths I use most often. It is the perfect "walk-around" lens for the 5D.
If I were in your shoes I'd get the 5D kit with that lens - saves you a bundle!
In addition get the very cheap and very plasticy, but very good 50 f1.8 for $80.
Later on you can always get a longer zoom - you will want the best glass on that body because the 5D does not do well with inferior glass - I had to learn that the hard way.
If I were in your shoes I'd get the 5D kit with that lens - saves you a bundle!
In addition get the very cheap and very plasticy, but very good 50 f1.8 for $80.
Later on you can always get a longer zoom - you will want the best glass on that body because the 5D does not do well with inferior glass - I had to learn that the hard way.
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
fdigital said:
Funny. Substitute the f/4 for a f/2.8 on the 70-200 and you've got my exact kit. The only thing I feel I'm missing is a fast 50 equivalent (which wouldn't be an issue if I had a FF camera and not a 20D).
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
Additionally, word on some of the camera forums is that Canon is putting out a new 5D (5D MkII? 7D? Nobody's sure yet.) within 2 months.
Granted, these are just unconfirmed rumors. However, considering how long the 5D has been on the market I wouldn't discount them completely.
My advice is to wait until the end of January/February to see if Canon introduces anything before you buy a new camera.
Granted, these are just unconfirmed rumors. However, considering how long the 5D has been on the market I wouldn't discount them completely.
My advice is to wait until the end of January/February to see if Canon introduces anything before you buy a new camera.
Peter55
Leica M5 & Summilux User
Save money listen to me
Save money listen to me
I don't know how large you will print, but an 8mp dslr will print very well at 13" x 19". A 6mp dslr will also print well at that size. I have Canon 300D, 350xt, 20D and 1Ds Mark II, Pentax K100 and Nikon 1DH. BTW the Nikon 1DH (2.7mp) will print well at 13" x 19" also. I got mine brand new at Broadwayphoto.com new in August 2007 for $732. The battery charger new at at KEH.com and three 2500mha batteries at battery barn for $25each.
I recomment a Canon 350xt, 20D, 400D pr 40D from KEH.com or even a Nikon 1Dx or 1DH at KEH.com for arund $599 with battery and charger.
I recommend you purchase older Nikkor AI/AIS primes for very little money at KEH.com you can use them on the 1DH, 1DX and all of Canon's DSLRs with metering.
Also purchase Nikkon F mount adapters to Canon EOS mount for $26 each at Photdoto.com.
If your smart you can spend less than $1,200 and have a very good and complete kit. I know I learned the hard way and spent over $25,000 on Canon gear before I got smart.
Save money listen to me
I don't know how large you will print, but an 8mp dslr will print very well at 13" x 19". A 6mp dslr will also print well at that size. I have Canon 300D, 350xt, 20D and 1Ds Mark II, Pentax K100 and Nikon 1DH. BTW the Nikon 1DH (2.7mp) will print well at 13" x 19" also. I got mine brand new at Broadwayphoto.com new in August 2007 for $732. The battery charger new at at KEH.com and three 2500mha batteries at battery barn for $25each.
I recomment a Canon 350xt, 20D, 400D pr 40D from KEH.com or even a Nikon 1Dx or 1DH at KEH.com for arund $599 with battery and charger.
I recommend you purchase older Nikkor AI/AIS primes for very little money at KEH.com you can use them on the 1DH, 1DX and all of Canon's DSLRs with metering.
Also purchase Nikkon F mount adapters to Canon EOS mount for $26 each at Photdoto.com.
If your smart you can spend less than $1,200 and have a very good and complete kit. I know I learned the hard way and spent over $25,000 on Canon gear before I got smart.
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Chris Lynch
Film Enough.
5D:
28/1.8 USM
50/1.8mkII
100/2 USM
done
40D:
17-55/2.8 IS EF-S
28/1.8 USM or 35/2
100/2 USM and/or 70-200/4L
28/1.8 USM
50/1.8mkII
100/2 USM
done
40D:
17-55/2.8 IS EF-S
28/1.8 USM or 35/2
100/2 USM and/or 70-200/4L
sienarot
Well-known
I had almost sworn off digital SLRs until I actually used a 5D. The colour produced by this camera is what drew me back. A friend lent me one for a wedding I was to shoot. I was so impressed with it, I bought my own the following weekend. I've rarely touched my 20D since and I'm even contemplated selling it so I can upgrade my backup body for another 5D.
However, if you're planning on using this for sports, it's probably not the best choice. As others have mentioned, the 40D may be better suited for sports because of its 5FPS versus the 5D's 3FPS as well as the 1.6x crop. If your big concern is low light performance, the 40D's nothing to laugh at. I've seen it in action and it's quite comparable with the 5D in that area.
However, if you're planning on using this for sports, it's probably not the best choice. As others have mentioned, the 40D may be better suited for sports because of its 5FPS versus the 5D's 3FPS as well as the 1.6x crop. If your big concern is low light performance, the 40D's nothing to laugh at. I've seen it in action and it's quite comparable with the 5D in that area.
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
akptc said:
I have a Canon 1DS, which is also a full frame camera. Contrary to a widespread opinion, it is of uttermost importance to use the sharpest lenses with a crop format camera but not with a full frame camera, which doesn't need much lens resolution to deliver sharp images. Inversely, a full frame camera needs lenses free from distortion and reasonably sharp over the whole field, which you won't get from a cheap zoom lens.
If you are on a budget, you'd better buy old manual focus lenses with a suitable EOS adapter: Nikkor (the 24/2.8, 50/2.0, 105/2.5 are all excellent), Pentax Super-Takumar (I recommend the 24/3.5, 35/3.5, 50/1.4 and 85/1.8), or the cheaper Russian, East-German or Ukrainian M42 lenses (Flektogon 20/4 or 35/2.4, Volna-9 50/2.8 macro, Helios-44 58/2, Jupiter-9 85/2 are honest lenses selling for dirt cheap prices).
If you need shorter or longer focal length, and especially fast lenses, I am afraid you will have to spend much more on recent lenses to get good quality and good correction of the aberrations.
Cheers,
Abbazz
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Thank you everyone for the generous and detailed advice! I can see there is lots of exciting research that I need to do.
It sure sounds like a good idea to wait ‘till Spring to see if the new gear from Canon will further lower the price of the 5D body.
My lens budget was tentative, I definitely don’t want to get any dog glass (have a lot of that already).
I now use Pentax K10D (most of the time) and K100D Super (for low light and when I need to travel light). It seems the 5D/40D combo would be a nice way to replace the current kit.
To summarize what I’ve read here so far:
It sure sounds like a good idea to wait ‘till Spring to see if the new gear from Canon will further lower the price of the 5D body.
My lens budget was tentative, I definitely don’t want to get any dog glass (have a lot of that already
). I now use Pentax K10D (most of the time) and K100D Super (for low light and when I need to travel light). It seems the 5D/40D combo would be a nice way to replace the current kit.
To summarize what I’ve read here so far:
- wait 2-3 months before buying a Canon body
- consider getting these bodies instead of the 5D:
- 40D alone as it performs well under low light conditions
- 1D Mark II
- 350xt, 20D, 400D, Nikon 1Dx,Nikon 1DH
- Canon lenses to look into:
- 17-55/2.8 IS EF-S
- 24-105 f4 L IS
- 28/1.8 USM or 35/2
- 50mm f1.8 Mk II
- 85 1.8
- 100/2 USM
- 17-40 f4L
- 70-200 f4L (non-IS version) - $500+ with the current rebate
- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
- Other lenses to consider (with adapters)
- Nikkon F mount adapters to Canon EOS mount for $26 each at Photdoto.com
- Nikkor 24/2.8, 50/2.0, 105/2.5
- Pentax Super-Takumar 24/3.5, 35/3.5, 50/1.4 and 85/1.8
- Flektogon 20/4 or 35/2.4
- Volna-9 50/2.8 macro
- Helios-44 58/2
- Jupiter-9 85/2
saxshooter
Well-known
Just curious, since you have the Pentax (I know it is 1.6x crop) are you using any of their very slim prime lenses? How are they?
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Nope, just the 31mm and 77mm limited (not too slimsaxshooter said:
). But I've seen some comparisons of the 70mm vs the 77mm and they seem close in image quality. Of course, there ain't nothin' better than the 31mm Limited... 
Olsen
Well-known
I think you are making a wise choice if you choose a 5D. It is one of the very best digital SLR-cameras you can buy. But it is unforgiving regarding optical performance of lenses. I have a 1Ds II with ditto very large collection of lenses. My advice to you: Make it simple. And cheap. You get very far with this:
- 5D
- 35 mm 1,4L The best Canon wide angle lense for Full Fame Digital SLR-cameras. Very sharp & very fast. Draws streight lines.
- 200 mm 2,8L II + 1,4x Converter + 25 mm macro ring. With this equipment you have a fast photographic tool with a wide range of applications. From wildlife and portrait, to macro.
- 5D
- 35 mm 1,4L The best Canon wide angle lense for Full Fame Digital SLR-cameras. Very sharp & very fast. Draws streight lines.
- 200 mm 2,8L II + 1,4x Converter + 25 mm macro ring. With this equipment you have a fast photographic tool with a wide range of applications. From wildlife and portrait, to macro.
kuzano
Veteran
Can't have your Kate and Edith too......
Can't have your Kate and Edith too......
Your comment about using it mainly for sports precludes the full frame high resolution sensor. As referenced by this rather redundant comment from only one post on the subject:
"Which is why both Canon and Nikon, for their top-of-the-line cameras, offer two variants, a sports body (the Canon 1D Mk III and the Nikon D2Hs) with lower resolution, larger buffer and higher burst rates, and a portrait version (the Canon 1Ds Mk II and Nikon D2Xs) with higher resolution."
Can't have your Kate and Edith too......
akptc said:
Your comment about using it mainly for sports precludes the full frame high resolution sensor. As referenced by this rather redundant comment from only one post on the subject:
"Which is why both Canon and Nikon, for their top-of-the-line cameras, offer two variants, a sports body (the Canon 1D Mk III and the Nikon D2Hs) with lower resolution, larger buffer and higher burst rates, and a portrait version (the Canon 1Ds Mk II and Nikon D2Xs) with higher resolution."
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Maybe I should be more specific.. when I say "sports" I mean my kid's baseball and soccer games. Relative to the K10D which I use now, the 5D seems to have faster focus. I am not too worried about burst rates either...kuzano said:
imajypsee
no expiration date
I usethe 5D and the 40D
I usethe 5D and the 40D
and also use the K10D. I like the auto focus of the K10D better than the Canon bodies. If noise is a problem, I just run the photo through a noise reduction program.
Regarding low light and focus, the 40D needs a contrasty subject for the auto focus to lock on. The 5D is better in low light. If all you're doing is using the camera for your kids sports outings, then you should consider a used 30D. Better auto focus than the 40D (more noise at high ISO, but not much... I use that body as well). If the 40D is your camera of choice, be sure you get a FAST aperture lens as the auto focus in low light with an aperture of f/5.6 or smaller is very hard to achieve. My recommendation would be the Sigma 100-300 f/4.
I usethe 5D and the 40D
and also use the K10D. I like the auto focus of the K10D better than the Canon bodies. If noise is a problem, I just run the photo through a noise reduction program.
Regarding low light and focus, the 40D needs a contrasty subject for the auto focus to lock on. The 5D is better in low light. If all you're doing is using the camera for your kids sports outings, then you should consider a used 30D. Better auto focus than the 40D (more noise at high ISO, but not much... I use that body as well). If the 40D is your camera of choice, be sure you get a FAST aperture lens as the auto focus in low light with an aperture of f/5.6 or smaller is very hard to achieve. My recommendation would be the Sigma 100-300 f/4.