Avotius
Some guy
Ok, here we go again...
So I recently and in the near future will have a few bucks that will be burning a hole in my back pocket, I will be lucky enough to be able to purchase a M8 very soon, but im not really set on lenses for it. My cv 35 PII will work fine as a 50mm (I hope) but will be replaced later by something with a little more character to it...but anyway my kit has always been 35-50 and my purchase a while ago of a Zeiss 50 planar obviously did not have the M8 in mind because I never thought I would be able to afford one. Well things change I guess, so now I am in the process of updating my lens line and it comes to my attention that I am going to need a 28mm lens...
So begins the digging of the hole....
When I look into it, seems I have quite a number of choices and none of them are good. The Leica 28 f2 is out of the question because its just way out of my price range. The new Leica 28 2.8 asph seems like a decent choice and the price is ok if a touch high but nothing I couldnt swing without a little more thriftiness. For me it would seem the obvious choice would be the Zeiss 28 2.8 but I have not really seen much about it so it would be a shot in the dark, but given my experience with Zeiss lenses I can assume it would still be a gem of a lens. Then there is the Voigtlander bunch, the 28 1.9 is a lens I did not care for because of its massive size although on an m8 it might not be a big problem but for me the Zeiss 50 size wise is kind of my limit. The cv 28 3.5 is so small and would be a great walk around choice but its just too slow for me and my constant low light situation photography.
Which digs me into another hole, a lot of places I shoot....even 2.8 can be considered pretty slow but I am hoping that I will be able to get around that the same way I have got used to shooting my canon 20D with the 17-40 at f4, 1/15th of a second and iso 3200 more times then I care to admit. Lets just say I have developed very steady hands because of my previous inability to afford a 16-35 2.8 lens.
Well....Leica 28 2.8 asph's seem to sell like hot cakes but are readily available here in chinaville at around 1500 USD. The zeiss option is half that price and so on. The popularity of the Leica lens is one of the reasons I am interested in it, there is not much out there said about the Zeiss which surprises me a bit. I am quite interested in the two lenses handling, the Zeiss I assume will be like my planar, and the Leica will be similar to the 35 asph, which was sublime for me. I am also very interested in topics such as flare and distortion, wide open use and any other tidbits in real life shooting.
Any comments about the lenses used on the M8 are of great interest as well since that is where the lens will sit (as my r2a doesn't have 28mm lines....maybe another crack at the ZI is due....)
ps. I am guessing the zeiss lens has 10 aperture blades like the planar, what about the Leica? Not really important, just curious thats all.
So I recently and in the near future will have a few bucks that will be burning a hole in my back pocket, I will be lucky enough to be able to purchase a M8 very soon, but im not really set on lenses for it. My cv 35 PII will work fine as a 50mm (I hope) but will be replaced later by something with a little more character to it...but anyway my kit has always been 35-50 and my purchase a while ago of a Zeiss 50 planar obviously did not have the M8 in mind because I never thought I would be able to afford one. Well things change I guess, so now I am in the process of updating my lens line and it comes to my attention that I am going to need a 28mm lens...
So begins the digging of the hole....
When I look into it, seems I have quite a number of choices and none of them are good. The Leica 28 f2 is out of the question because its just way out of my price range. The new Leica 28 2.8 asph seems like a decent choice and the price is ok if a touch high but nothing I couldnt swing without a little more thriftiness. For me it would seem the obvious choice would be the Zeiss 28 2.8 but I have not really seen much about it so it would be a shot in the dark, but given my experience with Zeiss lenses I can assume it would still be a gem of a lens. Then there is the Voigtlander bunch, the 28 1.9 is a lens I did not care for because of its massive size although on an m8 it might not be a big problem but for me the Zeiss 50 size wise is kind of my limit. The cv 28 3.5 is so small and would be a great walk around choice but its just too slow for me and my constant low light situation photography.
Which digs me into another hole, a lot of places I shoot....even 2.8 can be considered pretty slow but I am hoping that I will be able to get around that the same way I have got used to shooting my canon 20D with the 17-40 at f4, 1/15th of a second and iso 3200 more times then I care to admit. Lets just say I have developed very steady hands because of my previous inability to afford a 16-35 2.8 lens.
Well....Leica 28 2.8 asph's seem to sell like hot cakes but are readily available here in chinaville at around 1500 USD. The zeiss option is half that price and so on. The popularity of the Leica lens is one of the reasons I am interested in it, there is not much out there said about the Zeiss which surprises me a bit. I am quite interested in the two lenses handling, the Zeiss I assume will be like my planar, and the Leica will be similar to the 35 asph, which was sublime for me. I am also very interested in topics such as flare and distortion, wide open use and any other tidbits in real life shooting.
Any comments about the lenses used on the M8 are of great interest as well since that is where the lens will sit (as my r2a doesn't have 28mm lines....maybe another crack at the ZI is due....)
ps. I am guessing the zeiss lens has 10 aperture blades like the planar, what about the Leica? Not really important, just curious thats all.
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gavinlg
Veteran
I'm saying the zeiss 28mm.... It's small enough, well built and reports I've read show that it's a superb performer. The leica is no doubt excellent too, but is it "twice the price" excellent. I had a CV 28 1.9 and didn't like it at all. Felt clumsy and didn't like bokeh or the look wide open.
Again, I think the zeiss.
Other option may be an m hexanon 28mm - they're very good too and cheaper than all of them on ebay.
Again, I think the zeiss.
Other option may be an m hexanon 28mm - they're very good too and cheaper than all of them on ebay.
Avotius
Some guy
fdigital said:
hm....I was wondering the same thing, im sure the Leica lens is not twice the price excellent....food for thought....
And I did think about the hexanon but my current location makes it hard to aquire one and also there is something about the hexanon's characteristics that I just did like, duno what it was, just something didnt sit right with me looking at pictures taken with it.
Rafael
Mandlerian
The Zeiss is a very fine lens. Handling is very similar to the Planar. The Biogon is a bit shorter. Mounted (without hoods) the outer edge of the Biogon extends roughly as far out from the camera as the inner edge of the silver ring on the Planar.
With regards to flare resistance, I have found the Biogon to be an excellent performer. The lens hood is quite small though. So I do still use it whenever I mount the lens.
I have no experience with the Leica 28. So I can't compare the two lenses for you. But I can say that the ZM Planar is one of my very favourite lenses of all time. And within that frame of reference, I am sold on the Biogon.
With regards to flare resistance, I have found the Biogon to be an excellent performer. The lens hood is quite small though. So I do still use it whenever I mount the lens.
I have no experience with the Leica 28. So I can't compare the two lenses for you. But I can say that the ZM Planar is one of my very favourite lenses of all time. And within that frame of reference, I am sold on the Biogon.
mfogiel
Veteran
Avotius,
From what I know, the coding, or the lack of thereof is quite a factor with lenses shorter than 50mm on the M8. As you have probably noticed, I am a great fan of Zeiss, but in this FL I use the Leica 28 ASPH, because I wanted to get a clear vision of the 28mm frames on the R4A, and this lens is simply tiny. Optically it is not bad, even if to my eye it is not in the same league as, for example my 25 Biogon. The flare is low, but not as low as in ZM glass (however the front element is quite small, so it helps), the blades are 10, and the finish plus the rectangular hood with cap are first rate. If it were not for the coding, the price difference against the Biogon would outweigh the convenience of the small size, but if you factor in the coding, then I'm afraid you only have 2 logical choices: the Leica ASPH, or the Ultron with the Milch adapter. BTW, if you haven't yet subscribed to Reid reviews, do so, as he is completely M8 centric and you will find lots of relevant tests and opinions there.
From what I know, the coding, or the lack of thereof is quite a factor with lenses shorter than 50mm on the M8. As you have probably noticed, I am a great fan of Zeiss, but in this FL I use the Leica 28 ASPH, because I wanted to get a clear vision of the 28mm frames on the R4A, and this lens is simply tiny. Optically it is not bad, even if to my eye it is not in the same league as, for example my 25 Biogon. The flare is low, but not as low as in ZM glass (however the front element is quite small, so it helps), the blades are 10, and the finish plus the rectangular hood with cap are first rate. If it were not for the coding, the price difference against the Biogon would outweigh the convenience of the small size, but if you factor in the coding, then I'm afraid you only have 2 logical choices: the Leica ASPH, or the Ultron with the Milch adapter. BTW, if you haven't yet subscribed to Reid reviews, do so, as he is completely M8 centric and you will find lots of relevant tests and opinions there.
nahum
Member
I have had the minolata cle, the zeiss, the voigtander,and the leica asph. All felt great initially.
I have sold the zeiss. For a lens I use a lot, I think size
realy matters which iswhy Ididn't keep the zeiss ;
My 28 Minolta cle got strange with age (some bubles appearing in the glass?) so I slod it too
Leica asp has excellent quaity, is coded, and so compact, so it is my prefered lens.
I have kept and sometime use my voigtlander when there are somes risks (on a ship, on the beach, ...) because it costs less so I would regret less if something happend...
I have sold the zeiss. For a lens I use a lot, I think size
realy matters which iswhy Ididn't keep the zeiss ;
My 28 Minolta cle got strange with age (some bubles appearing in the glass?) so I slod it too
Leica asp has excellent quaity, is coded, and so compact, so it is my prefered lens.
I have kept and sometime use my voigtlander when there are somes risks (on a ship, on the beach, ...) because it costs less so I would regret less if something happend...
M. Valdemar
Well-known
I have the Konica M-Hexanon 28mm f2.8 lens.
The first time I tried it, I was not impressed. I shot a few rolls of film with an M6, and about 50 photos with the Epson R-D1. I don't know why I had the negative impression, but I didn't use the lens for about a year after that.
I mainly shot with a 1950's Canon 28mm f2.8 and was very satisfied with that lens on the R-D1, it seemed to match well with the sensor of that camera.
In the last month I mounted the Konica on a Leica M8. The results were nothing less than stunning. All my negative impressions of the Konica vanished and I have not taken the Konica off the camera for weeks.
The first time I tried it, I was not impressed. I shot a few rolls of film with an M6, and about 50 photos with the Epson R-D1. I don't know why I had the negative impression, but I didn't use the lens for about a year after that.
I mainly shot with a 1950's Canon 28mm f2.8 and was very satisfied with that lens on the R-D1, it seemed to match well with the sensor of that camera.
In the last month I mounted the Konica on a Leica M8. The results were nothing less than stunning. All my negative impressions of the Konica vanished and I have not taken the Konica off the camera for weeks.
northpole
Established
Perhaps you could consider acquiring the Hexanon currently being advertised for sale on this forum. If you don't find it ticks all the boxes, I'm sure you would recover most if not all of your outlay.
In the meantime you should start saving for the lens which seems to meet all of the criteria mentioned by you - a used Summicron 28mm f/2.0 asph - you know that's where you'll end this GAS chase!!
Peter
In the meantime you should start saving for the lens which seems to meet all of the criteria mentioned by you - a used Summicron 28mm f/2.0 asph - you know that's where you'll end this GAS chase!!
Peter
aizan
Veteran
the summicron is only a thousand more than the elmarit. i don't know how much more time that adds on, but it can't be that long.
ampguy
Veteran
I love my Zeiss 28/2.8 Biogon. Haven't owned an M8, and the only other 28s I've owned were the CV ones, the fast 28/1.9 is a good lens, but as you noted, large, especially with the hood. I don't need a hood with the Zeiss, so far so it makes it a lot smaller.
If I didn't own the Zeiss, I'd probably look hard at the Hexanon 28s, which seem to be more available now.
If I didn't own the Zeiss, I'd probably look hard at the Hexanon 28s, which seem to be more available now.
Avotius
Some guy
mfogiel said:
You raise a lot of good points, the coding is something to wonder about. The recent zeiss newsletter thing says its not really necessary but I think caution may be the best policy here. I wish there was a store on this side of the country that has leica and zeiss stuff so I could actually go look at both lenses....
I am going to have to look into people's responses using uncoded wide lenses on the m8 if there is any of the color problems or what...
PaulDalex
Dilettante artist
does it make sense to include the options the 25 Zeiss? I have the CLE and the same conundrum. The elmarit 28 asph is an attractive proposition but it is rather expensive. So I wonder if I would be better off with the superb 25 Zeiss. However, it is hard for me to visualize beforehand the effect of the focal lenght difference (although i have a 24 for Minolta srl), especially given that I am not a fan of wide angles
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Would another option be the pre asph Elmarit? You could get it coded which gets round that problem, it will be closer to the Zeiss price than the asph. It is also quite compact and with the cutour in the hood, is hardly noticeable on the M6. I have not used the M8, the Asph or the Biogon 28. However, I do have the Zeiss 25 and the pre asph Elmarit. The Zeiss is a keeper (The CV alternative is too slow for E6 and the Leica too expensive for me) However, the Elmarit will go. I don't mind the bulk of the CV Ultron, it is faster and for my photographic skills, any performance difference is not worth the extra for me.
Kim
Kim
sirius
Well-known
The 28mm Zeiss is a lovely lens. I'm coveting one right now. There's sample in flickr's group and it's consistent with most report of Zeiss, beautiful tonality, sharpness and colour a little on the intense side. The 25mm Zeiss gets great reports but needs to be milled to bring the right frame lines up.
Everyone seems to get the VC 15mm for the M8. It's a nice one too.
Congrats! Congrats! on getting an M8! I hope you love it and I look forward to seeing your photos.
Everyone seems to get the VC 15mm for the M8. It's a nice one too.
Congrats! Congrats! on getting an M8! I hope you love it and I look forward to seeing your photos.
-kk-
Established
im looking at 28s as well, and will most likely pull the trigger on the zeiss in a local deal (~$600 used, good condition, think its a good price). id say if there was no issue with 6 bit coding, go for the zeiss.
sirius
Well-known
Hey -kk- if you don't get that sale let me know! I'd love one of those...
SDK
Exposing since 1969.
I love the Leica 28mm/2.8 ASPH. It is my favorite lens with my M7 0.58X finder body. The 28mm/2.8 ASPH's performance is very similar to the Zeiss 28mm/2.8 ZM in a very much more compact and light package. The Zeiss is almost identical in size to the older Leica 28mm/2.8 version 4, and the 28mm/2 ASPH.Noth that those lenses are big.
Compared to the Zeiss, the 28mm/2.8 ASPH is perhaps a tad smoother in the out of focus rendition of the background when focused close (under 2 meters), but when focused at longer distances, the OOF look is almost identical between the two lenses. Both are much smoother in OOF than the 28mm/2 ASPH. I sold my Zeiss and kept the 2 ASPH 28mm lenses. I use the f/2.8 lens most and pull out the f/2 one for low light or isolation focussing at f/2.
Compared to the Zeiss, the 28mm/2.8 ASPH is perhaps a tad smoother in the out of focus rendition of the background when focused close (under 2 meters), but when focused at longer distances, the OOF look is almost identical between the two lenses. Both are much smoother in OOF than the 28mm/2 ASPH. I sold my Zeiss and kept the 2 ASPH 28mm lenses. I use the f/2.8 lens most and pull out the f/2 one for low light or isolation focussing at f/2.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
I've never used the Biogon but size is a turnoff, I've gotten to borrow the leica 2.8 asph and it was fantastic. I would definetely consider it.
jbf
||||||
Avotius: I have the CV Ultron and honestly it is not that much larger than the ZM 50 Planar which I also own (and i know you do too).
I like the lens for what it's worth so far. If I had teh cash i'd buy a better 28 though probably.
Then again, if I had the cash I'd probably sell the lens and stick with a 35mm lens instead of a 28.
So far, the 28 seems to be a bit too wide for me.
Anyway, good luck my friend.
I like the lens for what it's worth so far. If I had teh cash i'd buy a better 28 though probably.
Then again, if I had the cash I'd probably sell the lens and stick with a 35mm lens instead of a 28.
So far, the 28 seems to be a bit too wide for me.
Anyway, good luck my friend.
Avotius
Some guy
Bah, this is going to be a hard choice to make I guess. I like the idea of having a modern Leica lens but I had my heart set on replacing my cv 35 with a leica 35 asph cron but then again who knows....pain in the arse