Leica LTM Is it worth getting a Summitar

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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aad

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or a collapsible Summicron? I normally carry my IIIf with an Elmar, but I was asked to take photos at a home with fairly low light. I could have shot at 3.5 or 4, but the ressults at that aperture with the Elmar are soft. I would have taken the Nokton, but at that size I decided to take the Pentax MX and left the Leica home.

Is the greater size of the Summitar/Summicron all that much more than the Elmar? Would it be too much for a pants pocket, jacket pocket?

I have a Summarit I might swap for one.
 
The Summitar and Summicron are moderately bulky when collapsed. Particularly the Summicron, the benefit of collapsing seems minimal. The Summar is the last lens that's reasonably compact when collapsed, but it's quite soft at f/2.

Be aware that Summar, Summitar, and Summicron are all far more likely to have "condition issues" than an Elmar. The front glass on all is very soft flint (lead crystal) glass, very easy to scratch. All are subject to internal haze, and the coating (if they are coated) is insanely soft.

The largest camera I try and pocket is an Olympus XA, so I can't comment on pocketability.
 
I can use a Collapsible Summicron on my IIIF and keep it in the ever-ready case. It is bigger than the Elmar, but much smaller than the Summarit.

I can keep a Collapsible Summicron with a Heavystar vented Hood, filter, and cap on my Bessa R2 and keep it in the ever-ready case when collapsed- with the hood left on.

An alternative is a Canon 50/1.5. It is not much bigger than the Summicron in the collapsed position.

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I like the Summitar. Its bigger than the Elmar but still pocketable when collapsed. It is capable of producing a nice image with a 1950s feel about it.
 
Quick Comparison- Summitar and Elmar, both with filters, collapsed.

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I would not trade a good Summitar for a Summicron in similar condition...

( I would try to have both...)

That said...

The fact that Leitz has kept both the Summicron and the Elmar 50mm lenses in production to the dawn of the 21st Century suggests that they are pinnacle of their type...

Morgan & Lester's "Leica Handbook" describes the Summitar as a "Gaussian objective" design, which is a "classic" lens design.

For about 10 years (between the Summar's demise in 1940 and the Summicron's debut inthe early '50s), the Summitar was Leica's only medium-fast 50mm lens.

I have a mid-50's S-cron that I've been shooting quite a bit; it's a nice lens, but nowhere near as compact as the Elmar ( the only other Leitz lenses that come close are the Summar and the early Hektor f 2 /50mm ).
i also have a nickel Elmar 50, and a couple of Summars... the Summar is nice indoors, if you don't mind its "signature" softness...

The other caution about getting a Summitar is that it uses its own weird filter size (screw-in); the leitz filters look like E 39 glass mounted in a funnel-shaped ring, to reduce it to the Summitar's front ring.

If you're serious about shooting indoors with existing light, I'd skip getting another 50mm and go for a Summarit or similar f:1.4 or 1.5 lens...

Heed all the cautionary advice about Leitz's soft glass and soft coatings.

Good luck !

Luddite Frank
 
Years ago, I swapped my Summarit for a Summitar, had it CLA'd, and it turned out to be a much more useful lens than the Summarit. However, the Canon 50/1.5 shown in this thread sure looks attractive on a Barnack. Does anyone know how the Canon 50/1.5 and the Summitar compare optically?

Jim N.
 
OldNick said:
Years ago, I swapped my Summarit for a Summitar, had it CLA'd, and it turned out to be a much more useful lens than the Summarit. However, the Canon 50/1.5 shown in this thread sure looks attractive on a Barnack. Does anyone know how the Canon 50/1.5 and the Summitar compare optically?

Jim N.
Click to expand...

Here`s the thread with two shots taken with my Kugellager IIIC and the Canon 50mm f1.5 - one of my all time FAVORITE lenses to work with

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51330

and another photo with the same camera and a wartime "uncoated" f2.0 50mm Summitar

emillyflappercolor.jpeg


I LOVE my Summitar

Tom

Good Clean Summarit`s are getting HARD to find and more expensive, it`s a lens that`s taken a bad rap for too long, for "vintage" Film Noir looks and Dreamy looking stuff in B&W it`s perfect, I would`nt trade the lens if it`s really clean and fog/haze free - just buy a Summitar outright - you can find decent ones on the evilbay for less than $250
 
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Great pics, Tom !

Thanks for sharing... inspiration for ham-handed guys like me !


Luddite Frank

( So, are Summitars "chick magnets", a la "fine British sports-cars" ?)
 
The Canon is a classic Sonnar formula lens, high-contrast than the Summitar and an outstanding performer.

I use the Canon a lot; alternate between it an the Collapsible Summicron.
 
Brit cars and Summitars

Brit cars and Summitars

Every time I extend my Summitar it seems some lady want to touch it. The best I can do is a shot of a Morgan taken with a Summitar just before it was stroked by the lady who owned the car.
 

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LeicaTom said:
Here`s the thread with two shots taken with my Kugellager IIIC and the Canon 50mm f1.5 - one of my all time FAVORITE lenses to work with
Click to expand...

Tom, thanks for sharing the photos and your comments.

Jim N.
 
Again, thanks to all. Brian, I do a lot of car pictures (though the Elmar does just fine for that) so it was great to see the Morgan.

If anyone does have a Summitar/cron and would like to work a trade for a Summarit, I am open. I'm not one to hold onto things I don't use.
 
Dektol Dan said:
Every time I extend my Summitar it seems some lady want to touch it. The best I can do is a shot of a Morgan taken with a Summitar just before it was stroked by the lady who owned the car.
Click to expand...

I like it when ladies stroke things ;) , it make for good luck in photo hunting.
 
aad said:
Is it worth getting a Summitar
or a collapsible Summicron?
Click to expand...
Two different things. To many "Who Cares!" people, it doesn't matter.

There are many differences, only palpable after used for a while. The Summicron -- any Summicron, with the exception, perhaps, of the 1969 version -- renders a very "brittle" image wide open already, almost as good as the 50mm f/2.8 Elmar wide open.

The Summitar, which is the forerunner to the Collapsible Summicron, has harsher, swirlier (if that's a word) bokeh, but a very unique feel, from f/2 through about f/4. Also, there's a bit of focus shift evident at different focusing distances with the Summitar through the whole field of the image.

And it's a beautiful performer either on film or digital images:


Leica M6 + 50mm f/2 Summitar @ f/2 / Kodak Tri-X on Diafine



Leica M8 + 50mm f/2 Summitar @ f/2
 
Dektol Dan said:
Every time I extend my Summitar it seems some lady want to touch it. The best I can do is a shot of a Morgan taken with a Summitar just before it was stroked by the lady who owned the car.
Click to expand...

Dang!

It that a badass colour for a Morgan, now I`ve seen it all :)

Hmmmm I guess I better use the Summitar more often, that`s if the ladies like them so much, I know that look really good with the ladies


46b3bfcebb4ca.jpg


Crossprocessed Kodak Slide (with a Canon F-1 50mm f1.8) model`s holding a very early 1946 Leica IIIC "Flattop" with a "Wartime" Summitar

Enjoy!

Tom
 
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