Zeiss 25

[jackal2513]

In post 9 you said "(too high contrast imo... first thing you have to do in developer is drop the blacks setting to zero and return the contrast setting to zero !)"

Then you mention the ZM 25 would not work well "for people on an M8" (I use mine on the M8). On which camera did YOU use YOUR ZM25 again? And how come YOU know its no Elmarit 24 (as you mention in another post). You seem to already own one, but then, why did you suggest to buy mine?

yes i did say that and meant it

and then as you say i said it wouldn't work well for peole on an M8

to answer you question I used mine on an M8

I stated its no elmarit because I have seen lots of shots of the elmarot and they always look far superior. I don't have to own the elmarit to have an inkling of the sorts of pictures it produces

not being funny here.... I posted my findings. If no one agrees then fine but I just thought some of you may have found similar issues. When all is said and done we all have different tastes in any case.

 

[thomasw_]

Wow, the zm 25 rocks my world....dude, perhaps your particular sample is damaged? can you link to some images of yours which describe what you are saying? i have hard time believing it is the zm 25 as i know it; for i prefer the zm 25 over the L 24....and the L 24 is better for colour, but not BW imo. As I shoot mostly BW, I kept the zm25.

 

[kipkeston]

flare is what you want !

it might have made that shot look photographic/pretty

would everyone just quit paying attention to this troll who doesn't even give show us a photo

 

[jackal2513]

ok, i'm going to duck out of this thread now because people are getting aggressive and to be perfectly honest I find that upsetting

I expressed an opinion which clearly isn't a very popular one and it would appear to me that in order to protect the integrity of certain individuals lens collections i'm labelled a troll. If I am a troll then you are all safe because my findings can have no validity. We'll i'm happy with that, lets just say I'm a troll and I made it all up and let's leave it parked there because it makes my life easier that way. Next time you pick up that barrel, dont let my vile statements creep surreptitiously into your mind because nooo way, they cannot possibly contain any single grain of truth.


Is it not the case that this is merely a rebadged CV for sharpness whores. Is it surely not the perfect lens for the armchair expert who judges imagery from the tech specs of the equipment that made it. Look at the facts, it's big on contrast, big on sharpness & possibly the biggest RF lens when it comes to resolution but when the brochure has been discarded, the numbers been crunched and the blind idolatory has dissapated just a touch, it all comes down to the pictures and in my experience they were little or nothing to do with proper photography.



Long live leica.

 

[mfogiel]

jackal2513

Just enjoy photography - you don't like the Biogons ? no problem, you can even use a pinhole, but if you wanted to draw our attention to your findings, you should have shown your pictures as an example ... "Proper" or not, haha...

 

[Turtle]

The shot to me shows that the problem is with lighting and image processing. the scene has a significant brightness range and I think that the way the image has been dealt with digitally has sucked everything to the soot and whitewash ends of the scale with little in between. I honestly don't think that is a lens issue. The Zeiss ZMs have a very gentle tonal scale which is at times smooth and creamy. In some cases, the imaghes look less agressive than some Leica shots, but IMO this is as advantageous as disadvantageous...just depends on requirements. I do NOT think Jackal is being a troll, but has a genuine issue with the results he is getting. Fair enough, but it would oerhaps have been better to phrase it this way than indicate that it is a problem inherent to this lens.

Jackal, have a look on at this link:

http://www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=835&pp=8&page=2

The first 3 images on that page (page 2) were shot on ZM lenses (in this case mostly on a 28 biogon) and the images have plenty of snap/contrast/microcontrast and these were banged out in minutes after a scan on a crappy flatbed. However, they were off film and for whatever reason, it allowed me results that worked for me. ZMs are smooth, but don't give rise to the issues you seem to have per se. It may be that you are used to processing images shot on Leica lenses and this process is not translating as well for the Zm25. Who knows, but if it is not wrking for you and causing grief, then you would be crazy NOT to ditch the lens to ensure you get the results you want. There is no need to stamp "long live Leica' in response to some heel snapping. I can see the issue with the shot you posted, but would argue that the lens is not wholly at fault here. I uses both brands and both are truly superb.

Rgds

 

[Rhoyle]

C'mon everybody... I think it's obvious that he's just yanking our chains and laughing at the responses...

BH

 

[tore@havhest.no]

Well, I've had both the Zeiss 25 and the Elmarit 24 and, quite frankly, they're both excellent. Any difference in quality I would consider minimal cause I couldn't spot any so that would just be for lab testing. So, I suppose it's down personal taste as to how the two renders, which again is quite similar.

However, I decided to get rid of both. Not because of quality but the mere fact that they both protrude to much into the view finder of an M8 for my taste. I just feel more comfortable with a 21. That's all there is to it. Next up is 28 which is ok in the finder.

 

[jackal2513]

The Zeiss ZMs have a very gentle tonal scale which is at times smooth and creamy. In some cases, the imaghes look less agressive than some Leica shots,

thnaks for your intelligent and consdierate post

what you say rings some bells

i found shots to have a smooth tonal transition and in tis way, faces did appear a bit too creamy and mushy... whereas the overall macro contrast was always very high. To my eyes quite a strange combination.

The leica would be almost the inverse, not a creamyness but more intense microcontrast and detail (note that I didn't say it was greater resolution or sharpness) on the faces yet paradoxically a narrower flatter overal tonal range with more detail in the blacks and less aggressive on the highlights in the scene.

anyway. i absolutely loved the build of the lens and the cosmetic design. I really did want to like it and I may try to borrow one again sometime, maybe try it out in less harsh sunlit conditions. Anyway, its now sold and my 24 Elmarit is on the way.

As an aside. I received my 18mm Zeiss Distagon today and i've done only a few test shots so far , also comparing to a Leica 21 ASPH that I have and so far the results are promising. At 5.6 it has more detail on centre than the leica but teh elica hs more sharpness on the edges. The leica also has noticeable highlight bloom or smear compared to the zeiss, all part of the leica look I guess. The 18 focuses really nicely and once again the feel and build/quality si highly pleasing. It also looks the part with the shade and the red markings to match the M8. I will post up a worthwhile shot when I first have one.

Can anyone say if there are different design philosophies or fingerprints between the biogon & distagon ? Are they supopsed to have certain proiroties or characters ?


regards

Rich

 

[mfogiel]

I can say on the basis of what I see with the 25 and 35 Distagons ZF, that these are more optimized for top sharpness in the centre, and are also slightly less trouble free in terms of chromatic aberrations than the Biogons. The 25 Biogon is also understandably much more rectilinear. I think the slightly bigger distorsion and weaker corners are sort of dictated by the different design, therefore the optimization is more on the top sharpness in the centre than anything else - this rings also the obvious conclusion, that the Distagons are particularly useful for people who use them on cropped sensors. Bokeh, 3d rendering and flare resistance are comparable to Biogons, and at maximum levels, as usual for Zeiss.