Compact 50mm M - Heliar f2 or Elmar f2.8?

anoldsock

anoldsock

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...so I've been searching all over the net for the last 2 days for the answer to the most compact 50mm M mount lens, and found very little information comparing the size of the different lenses. I should be sleeping so I can get up for work tomorrow, and thought maybe I'll just drop the question in the forum and hopefully someone can provide some info or comments.

Basically, the Summicron 50/2 has been priced out of my budget, and I am left considering the Heliar 50/2 or the Elmar 50/2.8. I know the Elmar 50/3.5 and the 40mm Rokkors are out there, but I'd like just to stick the two lens I mentioned.

My initial thought is that I'd go for the faster Heliar, which is available in the classified section as well as on cameraquest. I like that it's faster than the Elmar, but just want to know how much bigger it is when collapsed. I'm afraid of losing the pocketability of the camera. I'm not worried about how compact the lens is with the hood because, well...they're detachable.

In terms of how compact when collapsed, does anyone have any experience with these two lenses? I'd appreciate some feedback. Thanks in advance!

*sleepy and confused
 
Hmm...I guess an even more prudent question is whether or not a Heliar 50/2 can be collapsed on an M6? Does anyone have this combo?
 
here's my 2 cents.

from what i hear, the heliar is not much of a collapsible. between the 2, the elmar would be a more pocketable lens when mounted, but by how much i cant tell you.

something else i would consider is the summicron 40. why? its only very slightly bigger than the new elmar when collapsed, and its f2 to boot. If you get one with the rubber hood intact, it collapses into itself, so no additional length there either. Whether 40mm is to your liking or not is another question.
 
IIRC, the Heliar will only collapse 8-10mm whereas the Elmar will collapse about 2cm. I don't have the Heliar myself but my Elmar 50/2.8 collapses without problems on my M6TTL so it shouldn't be a problem with the Heliar either. I can take out a ruler tonight and measure my Elmar if you wish.

The 40mm as suggested by -kk- is a very fine lens and a much better match to the 35mm framelines of the M6 on distances over 2-3m than is a 35mm lens. It's very compact too but if you prefer the perspective and angle of a 50mm, it's probably not a very good choice.
 
The voigtlander 50mm f2.5 is the tiniest lens! Or if you want slimmer profile an elmar 50 3.5 of course!
 
If it were me I would go for the Elmar. Used they can be had for a pretty decent price and the rendering of the Elmar is very pleasing. The Heliar....not my cup of tea, also the collapsible thing on it is rather gimmicky, it doesn't move all that much to make a difference. Try and Elmar and no hood for a nice small camera with modern lens. I have the older Elmar 3.5, that is a truly small package.
 
Seems like no one noticed that you said you didnt want the 3.5 elmar but they chime in anyway. Regardless it is the smallest option and my choice for smallest overall package, but still I suggest you go for the modern Elmar 2.8, though it may not be a pocket camera then, depends on your pockets, I dont think a Leica is a pocket camera, they are heavy and I dont have any pockets except on my utility vest that can support a Leica with lens comfortably or safely. Even a bessa is a bit of a stretch. Maybe im picky though, even my Ricoh GRD I dont stick in my pants pockets, mainly because im afraid of crushing the thing though.
 
I have the following compact 50's.

Elmar-M 50/2.8 (Best flare resistance.)
Elmar 50/3.5 and FED 50/3.5 (Most compact. Classic rendering. Awkward to handle.)
Summicron 50/2 (Worst flare resistance. Classic rendering. Best construction.)
Color Skopar 50/2.5 (Best handling.)

Personally, my M2 usually has the Elmar-M 50/2.8 on it with B&W film since it fits into the pocket of my lunch bag and doesn't much need its hood to fight flare. Otherwise, I go with the Color Skopar when a compact 50 is called for as it handles very well and is just about as compact even without collapsing.
 
The Heliar does indeed fit on the M6, but it's true it doesn't collapse all that much – 8-9mm only – also the cap is a clip-on so that adds another 3mm or so (when I get home I'll measure the extent to which it protrudes).

The vintage Elmar 2.8 is a more compact lens, but the Heliar is far more resistant to flare and has all the advantages of modern glass. If compactness is your primary concern though, go for the Elmar.
 
My 1969 Elmar 50/2.8 is 40mm high when extended and 21mm collapsed. I don't have any hood for it but the cap (#14321) will add approx. 2.5mm when mounted.

One thing I don't like about it so far is that the aperture dial will rotate with the lens as you focus. This makes it a bit tricky to adjust it unless the lens is focused at either end of the scale, preferably with the infinity lock engaged. From what I understand, this does not apply to the newer Elmar-M (but that one is a bit more expensive). Another thing is that I haven't been able to find a rear lens cap that will fit when the lens is collapsed so I have to store it in it's extended position. Someone told me to use an old plastic film canister but I haven't found one that fits very well yet.

So far, it's been a nice lens with good sharpness and nice out-of-focus areas, well worth the €200 I paid for it. The Elmar-M is supposed to be every bit as good as the Summicrons with the exception of that last f-stop but I gather that it's out of your budget too.
 
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