Sofa King
Established
So, I'm currently on the verge of a trade of my 35mm Biogon for a current 50mm Cron. I'm considering this for three reasons: 1) I'm a gearhead and won't be satisfied until I know I have the best or sexiest thing within my reach (summiluxes and noctiluxes are way out of reach) and 2) because I shoot about 80% black and white and find the Biogon's high contrast rendering results in downright ugly tones in contrasty light. I also have a third version 35mm cron and I love the tones I get from it in black and white and can handle the lower contrast in color. 3) Because 50mm is my preferred, most natural focal length and I have yet to cover it (I have two 35s and that's it).
My question is this: will the current 50 Cron render more like the Biogon or the 35 Cron version 3?
Example of what I don't like about the Biogon:
Ugly tones ruin(?) what I consider an otherwise interesting photograph.
Example of what i like about the 35mm Cron version 3:
I'm fairly sure the Biogon would have blown out his forehead.
My question is this: will the current 50 Cron render more like the Biogon or the 35 Cron version 3?
Example of what I don't like about the Biogon:
Ugly tones ruin(?) what I consider an otherwise interesting photograph.
Example of what i like about the 35mm Cron version 3:
I'm fairly sure the Biogon would have blown out his forehead.
mfogiel
Veteran
I am sure instead, that taking pictures with less flary lenses of high microcontrast and good overall contrast is an advantage. If you want a softer tonality, change the film and development, use compensating developers and 400ISO good tonality films like Neopan 400, Tri-X or HP4+. The sexiest lenses for the RF are actually, in my opinion, from Zeiss. Here are some examples of the Biogon shots:
Neopan 400, Tmax RT developer
Acros in Tmax RT developer
Ilforx XP2
Acros in Prescysol EF
I actually like the contrasty and biting look in 35mm, as this makes the images bolder. If I need better tonality and fine gradations, I prefer to move up to MF. If you prefer a less biting rendering from a 50mm lens, look at some C Sonnar shots, here's one made on HP5+:
Neopan 400, Tmax RT developer
Acros in Tmax RT developer
Ilforx XP2
Acros in Prescysol EF
I actually like the contrasty and biting look in 35mm, as this makes the images bolder. If I need better tonality and fine gradations, I prefer to move up to MF. If you prefer a less biting rendering from a 50mm lens, look at some C Sonnar shots, here's one made on HP5+:
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markbrennan
Established
Hi Sofa -
I actually just got the CV Heliar 50 and so far really like it a lot. I had previously been shooting w/ the latest 50 'cron and, although I loved the performance and consistency of that lens, I believe the Heliar suits me better.
Why? I think it's slightly softer and less contrasty. From the 2 rolls I took on the street, I just like how it renders light and shapes better. The 'cron is an amazing lens, super sharp with pretty high contrast, in my opinion. But now I'm thinking the Heliar's images are somewhat more lovely. The 'cron is almost clinical in its sharpness, I found.
To be honest, i haven't posted pictures to RF Forum, so have nothing to show you now. But i'll try to get something up.
Regards,
-Mark
I actually just got the CV Heliar 50 and so far really like it a lot. I had previously been shooting w/ the latest 50 'cron and, although I loved the performance and consistency of that lens, I believe the Heliar suits me better.
Why? I think it's slightly softer and less contrasty. From the 2 rolls I took on the street, I just like how it renders light and shapes better. The 'cron is an amazing lens, super sharp with pretty high contrast, in my opinion. But now I'm thinking the Heliar's images are somewhat more lovely. The 'cron is almost clinical in its sharpness, I found.
To be honest, i haven't posted pictures to RF Forum, so have nothing to show you now. But i'll try to get something up.
Regards,
-Mark
Krosya
Konicaze
Mark, please do - I'd like to see some photos with Heliar. I considered that lens a while back, but everything I could find didn't really impress me, actually I don't like any CV 50m lens much, so I ended up with Hexanon 50/2, which is a superb lens. But I did try Planar, a couple os Summicrons - Rigid and current, - all good lenses but Hexanon just agreed with me the most. But Heliar - well, not enough pics from it out there, so if you post some - would be great!
Sofa King
Established
I'm sorry, let me make myself abundantly clear...
I am not considering any other brand of lens other than Leica at the moment. I understand there are good alternatives out there, but I am not interested. I have seen sample images from many different lenses and I know that the Leica line is what appeals to me most. I am most interested in the tabbed 50 Cron (version before the most current) but was also considering the current version and just wanted to know if there would be a problem with lost photographs due to too high contrast as happens with my Biogon.
Thanks for your contributions so far...
I am not considering any other brand of lens other than Leica at the moment. I understand there are good alternatives out there, but I am not interested. I have seen sample images from many different lenses and I know that the Leica line is what appeals to me most. I am most interested in the tabbed 50 Cron (version before the most current) but was also considering the current version and just wanted to know if there would be a problem with lost photographs due to too high contrast as happens with my Biogon.
Thanks for your contributions so far...
shimo-kitasnap
everything is temporary..
Try the 40mm f2 Summicron-c, seems to have pretty good color and black and white renditions. I've also found the 50mm f1.5 Summarit has very good tonality for black and white work. Also both are a bargain.
Krosya
Konicaze
Honus
carpe diem
Adrian,
I agree with Krosya, a Rigid Summicron or DR Summicron is what you want. Beautiful tonality. I had the tabbed Summicron and, while it was an excellent optic, I found the contrast to be a bit harsh at times in b&w. I also have a 28mm Biogon, so I know what you are saying about the high contrast of the Biogon in b&w.
If you like the tonality of any of the 35mm non-asph Summicrons, then I think the Rigid/DR Summicron is your ticket in 50mm.
I agree with Krosya, a Rigid Summicron or DR Summicron is what you want. Beautiful tonality. I had the tabbed Summicron and, while it was an excellent optic, I found the contrast to be a bit harsh at times in b&w. I also have a 28mm Biogon, so I know what you are saying about the high contrast of the Biogon in b&w.
If you like the tonality of any of the 35mm non-asph Summicrons, then I think the Rigid/DR Summicron is your ticket in 50mm.
arseniii
Well-known
Tabbed crons are less contrasty than ASPH crons for sure. But I like Zeiss more. Your Biogon looks great to me 
Good luck
Good luckmyoptic3
Well-known
If you are after that classic old style Leica look, I would recommend the collapsible Summicron 50. It has slightly lower contrast. You can always pull it back up in Photoshop if you wish, or change papers if printing optically. The DR or Rigid would make good choices as well. I am not sure what the differences would be in the earlier and later 50 Summis. The earlier glass MAY have a slightly flatter field curvature, but that is just a guess.
We are really splitting hairs though. To my eyes, there is no bad or better Summicron 50. They all will make stellar images.
I have found that I prefer the earlier glass in most of the Leica lenses. They image a little bit differently.
Just to make things more complicated, you might want to look at the new Elmar 2.8. I have seen some great pictures shot w/ this lens.
We are really splitting hairs though. To my eyes, there is no bad or better Summicron 50. They all will make stellar images.
I have found that I prefer the earlier glass in most of the Leica lenses. They image a little bit differently.
Just to make things more complicated, you might want to look at the new Elmar 2.8. I have seen some great pictures shot w/ this lens.
maddoc
... likes film again.
The Summicron-C 40/2.0 is quite well balanced, contrast-wise but has a certain center-sharpness, a quite unique finger-print. It is for sure not to expensive and small. Only problem is finding filter ...
I would also recommend the DR Summicron, maybe the best in Leica's Summicron history.
I would also recommend the DR Summicron, maybe the best in Leica's Summicron history.
shimo-kitasnap
everything is temporary..
40mm Rokkor M same as summicron-c but with easy to fine 40.5mm filters. Another nice lens for b+w work is the serenar 35/2.8
markbrennan
Established
Hi Krosya -
You asked for samples of the Heliar, let me try to attach 2 street snaps - nothing special and certainly not a thorough test of what this lens can do, but I like it. I'm new to linking photos in RF Forum, so please bear with me:
Here are some older photos with the 'cron. Not a fair comparison, since the lighting conditions were much different and I'm sure the (fairly light) post processing was different, but hey, I'm really still a beginner and certainly not consistent at all!
You asked for samples of the Heliar, let me try to attach 2 street snaps - nothing special and certainly not a thorough test of what this lens can do, but I like it. I'm new to linking photos in RF Forum, so please bear with me:
Here are some older photos with the 'cron. Not a fair comparison, since the lighting conditions were much different and I'm sure the (fairly light) post processing was different, but hey, I'm really still a beginner and certainly not consistent at all!
