Canon P or Leica M?

[squirrel$$$bandit]

A bit of advice, if you will.

I've been hanging out here for about two months, asking lots of questions, because I've recently gotten back into film photography after many years. This came about because I bought a DSLR this winter, and think it's great--but I missed the film process, and figured I'd supplement my digital photography with film.

Well. That got out of hand pretty fast. I have bought and sold a bunch of cameras on eBay, trying things out, seeing what I like. And I have decided that M/LTM stuff is the way to go. Lots of cameras to choose from, lots of lenses, various degrees of cost and quality. I bought a Bessa R3M and 50/2 Heliar Classic and think they're great. I have a 21mm Color Skopar on the way, too. I like the Bessa so much that I went out and got contact lenses so I could see the whole beautiful 1:1 finder.

My ideal RF setup, I've decided, would be two cameras I could carry in my bag, one with a 50, 75, or 90 on it; the other with a wide. The Bessa is perfect for the longs.

For the other camera, I have a bunch of choices. There's the R4M, but I'd rather have something with a different feel from the R3M. An M2 is the one I keep going back to--around the same price as the R4M, and a real classic.

But a Canon P or 7s might be equally good. A little bit cheaper, and it's screwmount, so I could use the 21 without an adapter, and could try a Jupiter-12, too (which won't work on the Bessa).

What do you all think? Do I have other options? Is there an LTM Leica with a combined VF/RF and framelines? I don't believe there is, correct?

Thanks, and thanks also for all the great advice and interesting information I've gotten here this spring.

 

[kevin m]

The Canon V and VI cameras have adjustable magnification finders which are nice. Framelines for the 50 and the whole finder for 35. Still, the finder of the M2 is much nicer, and the RF patch is crisper and brighter. If you can afford it, I'd go with the M2. You can always put a screwmount lens on an M body, but it doesn't work the other way around. 🙂

 

[oscroft]

I like the Bessa so much that I went out and got contact lenses so I could see the whole beautiful 1:1 finder.

Now that's dedication 😀

A good body for wide lenses? I've had an R4A for something over a year, and it has a CV 21/4 almost permanently attached to it - for me it's the perfect body for wideangles, but I can also understand your desire for something different to a Bessa. I also have an M2 that I only got quite recently, but it's already becoming a favourite - it is well worn but had had a recent CLA, and it just feels right. But 35mm is the widest frame it has (I have a CV 35/2.5 on it most of the time). I prefer my M6 for slightly wider stuff, using a CV 28/3.5 on it quite a lot (and that's probably my favourite CV lens).

It's a tough decision, but I reckon you need an M2 and an R4A 😀

 

[Nokton48]

I use my M2 with CV 35, 50, 75, and Jupiter-12 and Jupiter-9 Russian lenses, and it's great. I have sold my Bessas.

M2!

 

[Nikon Bob]

My vote would be for the Canon P. I recently started using one and it is fast become my favourite LTM camera. The finder is more than good enough and has frame lines for 35/50/100 that are paralex correcting while focusing, swing back for ease of loading, folding rewind crank and you don't have to worry about burning holes in your shutter because it is not cloth. The only possible drawback is that it has no internal meter. It is cheaper than the alternatives. You likely know all this already. Just a great user in a meterless LTM type camera. I do use a J-12 with mine and the results are good too.

Bob

 

[Bingley]

The Canon P is a terrific rf especially for 50 and 90. But if you're looking for a body to use w/ a 21 skopar, you'll need an accessory vf on the P. You won't on the R4(A, M), which has framelines for a 21.

 

[payasam]

News to me, Bob: I thought the rear of the J-12 crashed into the P's light baffles.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The M-Mount camea can use both M-Mount and LTM lenses.

The Canon P is less than half the cost of an M2 or M3.

The finder on the M3 and M2 is better, but expect to put a CLA into it if one was not done.

 

[Bingley]

News to me, Bob: I thought the rear of the J-12 crashed into the P's light baffles.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I borrowed one last summer that didn't.

 

[sirius]

I have used and loved a Canon P. I would still be shooting with one, if not for craving Leica M lenses. CV, Zeiss, and LTM lenses are great, but nothing has compared to the enjoyment and beauty that my Leica M lenses deliver. I don't regret the change. The older LTM lenses got on my nerves because of flare, and the fact that the signature made my images look old. I would like my photos to be about themselves---in this time and space---and not a historic reference.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

The P or Populaire was the less expensive between itself and the 7. The 7, of course, has the meter but after 50 years it become problematical as once it becomes inoperative it might not be repairable. Though I have not checked any survey & the P was more common it appears to be the preferable of the two. As for the Leica M2 or M3 you need to be aware of the framelines. The M2 has the 35 frameline while the M3 does not and that is a decision based on what lenses you intend to use.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

From what everyone's saying, I think I'm going to try and find a P, and hope (or perhaps assume) there's an M in my future. I've got about 400 bucks; that should get me one in decent shape, I think. What's a reasonable price?

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

The Canon P is a terrific rf especially for 50 and 90. But if you're looking for a body to use w/ a 21 skopar, you'll need an accessory vf on the P. You won't on the R4(A, M), which has framelines for a 21.

The screwmount 21mm Skopar came with a finder--quite a nice one, too! It's on my Bessa now.

 

[Nikon Bob]

News to me, Bob: I thought the rear of the J-12 crashed into the P's light baffles.

I guess some do and some don't. I have a black 73 J-12 and a friend also has a black one, not sure which year his is, and both fit our respective Canon Ps. There may be camera to camera and/or lens to lens variations or a combination of both that may make a fit impossible. Just a bit nerve racking when trying it the first time and being conscious of reported mounting problems.

Bob

 

[Al Patterson]

From what everyone's saying, I think I'm going to try and find a P, and hope (or perhaps assume) there's an M in my future. I've got about 400 bucks; that should get me one in decent shape, I think. What's a reasonable price?

I managed to get a P for a bit north of $200, so for $400 you should be able to get a P and at least one lens for it. The only M I've seen that would go for less than $400 is the CL, but you'd be hard pressed to find a CL and an M lens for $400.

 

[Bingley]

From what everyone's saying, I think I'm going to try and find a P, and hope (or perhaps assume) there's an M in my future. I've got about 400 bucks; that should get me one in decent shape, I think. What's a reasonable price?

You should be able to get a user P in good condition for between $250 and $300; occasionally a nice one can be had for less (even under $200 if you're lucky and patient). The Canon 7 these days appears to go for around $200 in good condition and w/ a working meter. The P is a wonderful shooter; solid and very quiet.

 

[thomasw_]

Go for a M2 and a Youxin Ye tuning. You will love the M2 with a 35 mm lens!

After you try the M2 and 35 combo, you will know why so many of us think so highly of it.

But, I caution you, if you like that M2/35 combo, you might be tempted to find out what all the M3/50 combo fuss is all about.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Another wrinkle now...a local guy has an M4-P he wants to sell. I'm going to check that out, too.

 

[Bill58]

The VF of the P may not be up to that of the M2, but you can use an CV accessory VF and its like looking at a big screen HDTV TV--bright/ clear as anything can be.

 

[Al Patterson]

Another wrinkle now...a local guy has an M4-P he wants to sell. I'm going to check that out, too.

That is a nice camera, but it will likely be more than $400. Good luck!