Low flare, fast 50mm lens

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Tim Gray

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I've had a 50mm Summicron (newest copy) for a while and just recently picked up Nikkor-S.C. 50mm 1.4. I like both lenses, but after playing around with the Nikkor, I've noticed it flares.

Now, I'm a bit confused as to the definitions of flare. It does a couple types, some of which are more troublesome. The first flare it has is what I would call 'glow'. Most of the photos I've taken with the lens so far are wide open, and the 'glow' is there in the highlights. It works well on some photos and not so well on other photos; however I realize this is part of the design and the 'look' of the lens and I can live with it.

The other flare is the one that kills me - I guess we call it internal reflections? When a light is right outside the edge of the frame, it kills this lens. I've posted an example of this. The light was a 30 watt-ish fluorescent bulb right off the top right corner of the frame. I took several photos with this general framing, and they all have the huge circular flare evident in the this shot. By the way, you can see the 'glow' on her wrist and the white stripes on the socks.



Ok, on to my question. I like this lens and it has a neat look, especially for the price. I like the cron too, but could be convinced to get rid of it. What are my options for flare-proof 50's? Preferably all kinds of flare, but specifically the large flare caused by light sources right outside the frame or inside the frame. Zeiss Planar? Pre-asph summilux? ASPH summilux? Zeiss Sonnar? Other lenses? It'd be great if it was 1.4/1.5 as well...
 
Planar will be the best choice, but it is extremely sharp, so you might not be happy with some portrait shots. The C Sonnar is also much more flare resistant, but you can get some flare at times in these conditions - although it only happened to me when the sun was right beyond the frame, certainly not small light bulbs. The reason is, the ZM lenses have this bright metal filter mount, which can cause reflections that get inside the lens. It is much less likely that you will have trouble with a strong light source inside the picture. Here's a Planar shot with the sun right above the frame:
1472535041_6e9c42615e_b.jpg
 
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I believe the "glow" is from aberrations inherent in the Sonnar-type lens design that become apparent when shooting wide-open (unless you're talking about a general washed-out "haziness" which is probably veiling flare), whereas the 2nd flare is indeed a type of flare, but I don't know the technical term (I call it the "Sonnar Ring").

The most flare-resistant lens I own is the Leitz 50/1 Noctilux, followed by a Leica 50/1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH. I'm sure any "modern" (i.e., multi-coated) lens will be superior in flare-resistance to your 1950s Nikkor. That's certainly true w/respect to my only other modern fast 50s (Cosina Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton & Nikon's modernized "Olympic" 50/1.4 for the S3 2000). I think Nikon was really pushing the Sonnar design to its limits @ that time w/the 5cm/1.4 Nikkor-S. Even the Zeiss 50/1.5 Sonnars from the '50s (less extreme design), the original Voigtlander 50/1.4 Nokton, & the '60s-era Canon RF 50/1.4 are more flare-resistant.

Tim Gray said:
I've had a 50mm Summicron (newest copy) for a while and just recently picked up Nikkor-S.C. 50mm 1.4. I like both lenses, but after playing around with the Nikkor, I've noticed it flares.

Now, I'm a bit confused as to the definitions of flare. It does a couple types, some of which are more troublesome. The first flare it has is what I would call 'glow'. Most of the photos I've taken with the lens so far are wide open, and the 'glow' is there in the highlights. It works well on some photos and not so well on other photos; however I realize this is part of the design and the 'look' of the lens and I can live with it.

The other flare is the one that kills me - I guess we call it internal reflections? When a light is right outside the edge of the frame, it kills this lens. I've posted an example of this. The light was a 30 watt-ish fluorescent bulb right off the top right corner of the frame. I took several photos with this general framing, and they all have the huge circular flare evident in the this shot. By the way, you can see the 'glow' on her wrist and the white stripes on the socks.



Ok, on to my question. I like this lens and it has a neat look, especially for the price. I like the cron too, but could be convinced to get rid of it. What are my options for flare-proof 50's? Preferably all kinds of flare, but specifically the large flare caused by light sources right outside the frame or inside the frame. Zeiss Planar? Pre-asph summilux? ASPH summilux? Zeiss Sonnar? Other lenses? It'd be great if it was 1.4/1.5 as well...
Click to expand...
 
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Followup question: I've heard the Summicron is a flare-prone lens. I'm not sure if I have many examples of it in my photos since I haven't been shooting with it too much, but it's always mentioned to flare a lot on the internet. I do always use it with the hood since its the retractable one and so convenient.

Sounds like the Planar might be the one to get.

RE: Summilux. Is the ASPH or pre-ASPH better with flare? (please be pre-ASPH... 🙂 )

I'm not selling the Nikkor since it's fun, retro looking, and cheap. But I would like a fast 50 I could say take to a concert and not worry about getting big rings or other nasty flare that obscures the shot. If I found a suitable replacement, the Summicron could go though...
 
I have a new sonnar that I have used a ton and I wouldnt dare use that lens now without a hood. Im not sure that I would say that it flares easily, but when it flares, you are done. Ive lost many frames with this lens, but to be fair, Ive also shot several hundred rolls of film with it, so maybe I shouldnt complain.

The collapsible and first rigid summicrons that I have flare terribly, but I dont have examples with mint front elements, so my opinion on that should be taken with a grain of salt perhaps. The first black version from the 70's I havent had much problems with at all.

Ive never been able to get the Elmar-M 50 to flare under any conditions, however its a 2.8 so probably doesnt constitute "fast".

Ive shot directly into the sun with a Hexanon 50 and have gotten shots I dont think would have been possible with any other lens in my kit, that lens is shockingly amazing when it comes to flare resistance. Everything about the hexanon actually, is just amazing.
 
Tim Gray said:
I like this lens and it has a neat look, especially for the price. I like the cron too, but could be convinced to get rid of it. What are my options for flare-proof 50's? Preferably all kinds of flare, but specifically the large flare caused by light sources right outside the frame or inside the frame. Zeiss Planar? Pre-asph summilux? ASPH summilux? Zeiss Sonnar? Other lenses? It'd be great if it was 1.4/1.5 as well...
Click to expand...

Would a 43mm hood be an option as well? There's quite a few screw in type for the Nikkor 50 f/1.4.

Cheers,
 
The "glow" you're showing here is veiling glare caused by the lens dispsersing light from those very bright areas too much. The hard edged circle is a large ghost caused by an internal reflection.

Hoods don't fix flare associated with strong light in the image itself but can help with angled light that strikes the front element. Good lenses and technique can help.

The Noctilux is the most flare-resistant 50 mm lens for an M camera, followed by the 50/1.4 asph. It is extremely difficult to make either of these lenses flare. All the six-element symmetrical lenses are subject to greater amounts of flare, including the Zeiss 50/2 Planar, although Zeiss' T* coating and careful design helps enormously in comparison to the six-element versions of the 50/2 Summicron, which is susceptible to both veiling glare from light outside the image area and ghosts from strong light sources in the frame. I owned several Summicrons before I decided it was the lens, not either bad luck with samples or my technique. I haven't used the modern ZM Sonnar.

Marty
 
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RE: hood. I think the filter thread is too dinged up on this lens to use a hood. Besides, I think this lens has too much of a look to use all of the time, with the veiling glare (glow).

This is this the kind of flare that just kills me (not with an M or M lens):


Unfortunately, sometimes that's the shot and you can't move. This comes up a lot in concert photography; strong lights right outside the frame.

I guess I'll do some tests (ugh - never done those before) with the cron and see how it does. It'd be nice to borrow a ZM Planar and a lux or two... ha.
 
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The 50mm Summilux ASPH is an incredible lens. I know the price is hard to take but others claim it the best 50mm f1.4 ever and I would agree. I've got other ASPH lenses and they too have been incredibly good at controlling flare. I'm surprised others have listed the Noctilux as flare resistant but then I've only used mine indoors in low light and come to think of it, flare has never been a problem with it. The Noct. is just so big and heavy and now with the price of it I'm hesitant to use it much. Get the Summilux ASPH. You get what you pay for. Joe.
 
I mentioned a few. Of those, if you don't want to spend megabucks on used/new Leica/Leitz, I think the Cosina Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton is the best value (BTW, I don't count f/2 lenses as fast), but there are others who hate its boke, build quality, size, etc. The detractors have a point, but I haven't found the boke to be any worse than other f/1.4 or f/1.5 lenses, vintage or modern, & the cost is low enough that I can forgive the other flaws.

Tim Gray said:
Yeah. So any non-vintage lenses that would work?
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks you guys! I'll look into the Planar and the Leica Summiluxes (if I can find one at a price that doesn't make me cry).
 
I know it's not a 50... but that a nice pic in extreme flare producing situation

M6 + Ultron 35 at 1,7
 

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