ferdinandshen
Member
I finally managed to solve the vertical misalignment of my R-D1s RF without opening up the top plate, and more importantly, without turning a screw.
I got the information from here:
http://www.leica.org.cn/bbs/thread-6286-1-6.html
http://translate.google.com/transla...d-6286-1-6.html&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Scroll down to 4th picture that shows the vertical screw. What does the vertical screw do? The screw pushes the black bar up or down. As you can see, the spacing between the upper and lower edges of the screw is actually pretty huge. If the screw does not touch the bar at all, it won't do anything. So I just reached in and push down the bar a bit using a screwdriver (it is pretty tight). Now the alignment is as good as my M2!
Viva Chino!!!
I got the information from here:
http://www.leica.org.cn/bbs/thread-6286-1-6.html
http://translate.google.com/transla...d-6286-1-6.html&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Scroll down to 4th picture that shows the vertical screw. What does the vertical screw do? The screw pushes the black bar up or down. As you can see, the spacing between the upper and lower edges of the screw is actually pretty huge. If the screw does not touch the bar at all, it won't do anything. So I just reached in and push down the bar a bit using a screwdriver (it is pretty tight). Now the alignment is as good as my M2!
Viva Chino!!!
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Interesting, how did you reach the "black bar" and the screw without opening the top?
LCT
ex-newbie
Yes please explain how you adjust vertical alignment on a R-D1s by simply removing the hotshoe. Would be great news indeed.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
I assume he means he took the hotshoe off but not the whole cover...
mobilexile
Well-known
Yes, any chance you could expand upon the method used? Any pictures? How about exact tools used? Thank you.
efkbl
Established
This is very interesting! I guess ferdinandshen reached the black bar through the hot shoe and adjusted the alignment only by pushing the black bar instead of bringing it down by turning the screw.
I am not sure if this is a good method though: either you bend something by pushing it down and it may be not that good for the rangefinder, or the bar just stays down because of friction, and it this case it may just spring back up with a very slight shock.
Was it not possible to turn the screw clockwise until it pushes the bar down? In this case, it would mean that the screw shat is not deep enough. It could be fixed by opening the top plate, removing carefully the screw, and putting it back in place with a spacer (a ring big enough or something like this). Other solution would be to buy a similar but shorter screw.
Anyway, it is very interesting, now we have two good pics of the R-D1 and R-D1s rangefinder vertical adjustment mechanisms. If you look at them closely, you can see very few differences:
- the screw is not screwed deep enough to align vertically the rangefinder on the R-D1s
- on the right, under the black cylinder (optical entry of the rangefinder patch), you can notice a "missing" screw on the R-D1
Apart from this, I can't see any differences. Maybe only the factory setting of the rangefinder is different between the two models? Or
a bigger screw in the R-D1? This last idea could explain why it is so hard (impossible?) to adjust the rangefinder on the R-D1s. In this case, chaging the screw would be an easy fix to transform the R-D1s rangefinder in a R-D1, making it very easy to set.
I will remove the top plate of my R-D1 within a few day, if it does not seem too dangerous, I will remove the screw and measure it. Someone with a R-D1s could try the same.
Attach the pics of Rich's site and of www.leica.org.cn to this post for an easy comparison.
Reagrds,
Eric
Edit: another intersting difference is that it seems that not "glue" (low strength loctite?) on the screw of the R-D1s. Maybe this allowed the screw to get out of its shaft beacuase of vibrations, whereas it stays better in place on the R-D1?
I am not sure if this is a good method though: either you bend something by pushing it down and it may be not that good for the rangefinder, or the bar just stays down because of friction, and it this case it may just spring back up with a very slight shock.
Was it not possible to turn the screw clockwise until it pushes the bar down? In this case, it would mean that the screw shat is not deep enough. It could be fixed by opening the top plate, removing carefully the screw, and putting it back in place with a spacer (a ring big enough or something like this). Other solution would be to buy a similar but shorter screw.
Anyway, it is very interesting, now we have two good pics of the R-D1 and R-D1s rangefinder vertical adjustment mechanisms. If you look at them closely, you can see very few differences:
- the screw is not screwed deep enough to align vertically the rangefinder on the R-D1s
- on the right, under the black cylinder (optical entry of the rangefinder patch), you can notice a "missing" screw on the R-D1
Apart from this, I can't see any differences. Maybe only the factory setting of the rangefinder is different between the two models? Or
a bigger screw in the R-D1? This last idea could explain why it is so hard (impossible?) to adjust the rangefinder on the R-D1s. In this case, chaging the screw would be an easy fix to transform the R-D1s rangefinder in a R-D1, making it very easy to set.
I will remove the top plate of my R-D1 within a few day, if it does not seem too dangerous, I will remove the screw and measure it. Someone with a R-D1s could try the same.
Attach the pics of Rich's site and of www.leica.org.cn to this post for an easy comparison.
Reagrds,
Eric
Edit: another intersting difference is that it seems that not "glue" (low strength loctite?) on the screw of the R-D1s. Maybe this allowed the screw to get out of its shaft beacuase of vibrations, whereas it stays better in place on the R-D1?
Attachments
Last edited:
mani
Well-known
Those images are really interesting! And may at last be the answer to the riddle of the RD1s vertical alignment problem. I felt that my problem was solved more by downward pressure on the screw than rotation (which got me nowhere).
Now the question is whether the RD1s can be modified so this problem is finally solved?
Now the question is whether the RD1s can be modified so this problem is finally solved?
ferdinandshen
Member
Yes, I just reached in the hotshoe and push down the bar using a screwdriver. I do not think I will bend the bar by dong so because the screwdriver I used is so soft (crappy), so the screwdriver would bend before making any damage to the bar. As I mentioned, the bar itself is quite tightly fitted, so I guess this adjustment can still buy be a year or two.
I think this is definitely a design flaw in R-D1s. The vert screw is badly designed. The screw has been all the way into the hole and cannot go any further without drilling a hole on the RF. All we need to do is file a class action against Epson and have them replace the screw for all of us -- for free.
I think this is definitely a design flaw in R-D1s. The vert screw is badly designed. The screw has been all the way into the hole and cannot go any further without drilling a hole on the RF. All we need to do is file a class action against Epson and have them replace the screw for all of us -- for free.
mani
Well-known
Hmmm - I personally don't really think that would be the way to go for such an excellent camera in general. Any sort of do-it-yourself fix would be enough for me.
mobilexile
Well-known
I tend to agree, a law suit would not be the preferred path.
efkbl
Established
I guess a class action would not work, as rangefinder adjustment is not part of normal user operation of the camera anyway.
I removed the top plate of my R-D1 again this morning. I didn't remove the screw to measure it exactly, because I was a bit in a hurry and didn't want to have to realign completely the rangefinder.
But it does indeed look very similar to the first picture in my previous post: the screw is deep enough to press the "black bar", and the screw under the optical cylinder is "missing".
The adjustment screw seems to have a 5 or 6mm long thread. So maybe replacing the R-D1s screw with a shorter one would solve the adjustment issue?
I removed the top plate of my R-D1 again this morning. I didn't remove the screw to measure it exactly, because I was a bit in a hurry and didn't want to have to realign completely the rangefinder.
But it does indeed look very similar to the first picture in my previous post: the screw is deep enough to press the "black bar", and the screw under the optical cylinder is "missing".
The adjustment screw seems to have a 5 or 6mm long thread. So maybe replacing the R-D1s screw with a shorter one would solve the adjustment issue?
ferdinandshen
Member
It would be great if someone can figure out a way change the vert screw without removing the top plate. I know it is technically not difficult -- but it can be VERY difficult if you have a toddler who is more than willing to get into anything.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
You're joking, right? :bang::bang::bang:
ferdinandshen
Member
I am not joking about the design -- R-D1s is flawed. I am surely joking about the class action. I do not have ant money/energy/knowledge to do sth like against a company in Japan.
But remember one thing: Japanese business ppl are usually pretty polite and care about the voice of customers. I once had purchased a flash PC card with some bad memory cell in Japan, only found out the fact when I was in the US. The company even tried to reach me through their US branch and offer me a free exchange. Impressive.
efkbl
Established
I'm not sure if it is possible, because of the slight angle involved. Maybe with a magnetic screwdriver, in order not to loose the screw if you miss the spot.
But I think it would be better to try this first with an opened top plate, because if the screw is holding a moving part that could fall, it would help to see first how everything happens when you slowly remove the screw. If it goes well, trying through the hotshoe with no special care would be ok.
Removing the top plate is not that difficult, but there are problems for me about it:
- you have to remove the rubber grip and put it back with double-sided adhesive. The one I use is not that good, I had to replace it after 6 months. It is probably possible to find a much better one (cf. Rich Cutler's web site).
- my R-D1 is a repaired one (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56871). Each time I remove the top plate or put it back in place, I risk breaking one of my solderings, and it's quite painful to redo those solderings. I opened the camera yesterday because two solderings broke after the camera fell on the ground from about 1 meter high. The soft ground and protective case (thanks sooo much Raffee!) avoided further damage!
If it was an unrepaired camera, I would have very much less second thoughts about opening it for experimentations.
And the toddler problem is a concern for me too
. It was part of the repair challenge, I did most of the work at night when he was asleep, although playing with a soldering iron can be a quick way for toddlers to learn that daddy's toys are not suitable for them:angel:.Regards,
Eric
mani
Well-known
Hi guys (on my way to Denmark today!), I'd be really happy if some enterprising and brave person were to try a fix for this recurring problem on the R-D1s. It would be great if we had a standard procedure to follow to fix this inexplicable mistake by Epson - but I don't think I have the technical ability, to be honest. Anyone want to be the guinea pig?
efkbl
Established
If someone with a badly misaligned R-D1s not able to set it with the screw is willing to let me try, I would need one day with the camera to see if it is possible to fix it (remove top plate, remove screw, buy a shorter but similar one, replace it and close the camera).
I am not a professional repairman though and can't offer liability for the repair, but I think it should be possible. And it won't be possible before mid-September.
I am not a professional repairman though and can't offer liability for the repair, but I think it should be possible. And it won't be possible before mid-September.
jamriman
Established
Just wondering if you ever managed to do this. Thanks!
jamriman
Established
Anyhow, I emailed Don Goldberg if he is able to replace the Vertical alignment screw on my R-d1s if need be. His answer surprised me. He said "the adjustments are way way too crude, and another problem is that many of the R/Fs in the R-D1 have a small amount of play in the R/F coupling linkage. The vertical adjustment is not all that bad, it's the horizontal adjustment that' bad." He also said he hopes to never have to adjust them again!
Philip Whiteman
Well-known
From the images posted, It seems to me that the vertical adjustment screw of the R-D1 is perhaps designed to lift AND depress the black operating bar, while the vertical adjustment screw of the R-D1s is only designed to lift the bar. For the adjustment to work and stay in place, there would have to be some kind of spring bias in the R-D1s bar, holding it down against the screw's integral collar. I suspect ferdinandshen's finder had lost its spring bias, for whatever reason, and a shove on the bar simply returned the bar to its intended position (with no danger of damaging the mechanism).