Whateverist
Well-known
I'm interested in buying a C2/3, but there's a few questions I have that Google hasn't been able to answer.
- Is there much difference between pre-and post-war C3's, either in terms of design or pricing? I'm mostly interested in a pre-1945 model, but only if it doesn't have significant penalties in usability or cost.
- What sort of price should I keep in mind when looking for a working C3, preferably one in good cosmetic condition? A quick search of eBay shows prices in the $20-40 range, would that get me a good camera or a junker?
- Would it be best to import one from the US, or find a European seller? I'm in Europe myself, so the cost of shipping from the US is not exactly light; however, I'm having trouble finding a good European seller. Are there perhaps any online stores that are recommended, or trusted eBay sellers?
I hope someone can help me, I've been meaning to get a C3 ever since I saw the prop version in Sky Captain
- Is there much difference between pre-and post-war C3's, either in terms of design or pricing? I'm mostly interested in a pre-1945 model, but only if it doesn't have significant penalties in usability or cost.
- What sort of price should I keep in mind when looking for a working C3, preferably one in good cosmetic condition? A quick search of eBay shows prices in the $20-40 range, would that get me a good camera or a junker?
- Would it be best to import one from the US, or find a European seller? I'm in Europe myself, so the cost of shipping from the US is not exactly light; however, I'm having trouble finding a good European seller. Are there perhaps any online stores that are recommended, or trusted eBay sellers?
I hope someone can help me, I've been meaning to get a C3 ever since I saw the prop version in Sky Captain
Muggins
Junk magnet
C3s are pretty uncommon in Europe as far as I know - here in the UK I've only ever seen 2 and I bought one of those! So, despite the postage (it's high for a reason - it's not a light camera!), your best bet may well be US ebay. Alternatively, as you won't be able to do what US buyers can, which is scour charity shops for ones for parts, you might try getting in touch with the Argus Collectors Group and see if you can get a good one through them.
As for usability... Not a word usually associated with C3s! They're an experience all of their own!
Adrian
As for usability... Not a word usually associated with C3s! They're an experience all of their own!
Adrian
Whateverist
Well-known
Hm - that's unfortunate. It's a mass-produced camera, so I assumed that it would have seen some export. EBay it is then...
As long as I can get it too shoot an identifiable picture with a bit of practice I'd consider it "usable".
Oh, I don't mind an experience
As long as I can get it too shoot an identifiable picture with a bit of practice I'd consider it "usable".
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I have a C-3 with an 'early' serial number and one with a late serial number.
The early ones have more shutter speeds on the wheel (latter ones get less and less, until about 5 speeds I think, my early one has 7 speeds).
The early ones have aluminium frame counter wheels on the top, later ones have black plastic ones.
The early ones have a different back (two horizontal lines and a film type indicator)
Later ones have a colored and a magnifying lens in the Rangefinder eyepiece.
There are a few more differences that I don't recall right away. No accessory shoe on early models. Argus logo not on the front panel on early ones. Early case has no provision for the side-mounted flash. Late case carries instructions for colour or B/W film.
I've bought both my C3's though Ebay. Usually not paying more then $5 to $10 minus shipping. A case and a flash holder might be included in the price.
Experiences: Adjust the shutter cocking lever so that it doesn't catch your fingers when firing the shutter.
Ergonomics? Who needs them when you have an indestructable 'brick'.
No double-exposure protection, so a bit of routine is required.
The coated Cintar lens is quite capable of taking identifiable pictures and better too.
I hope that helps,
The early ones have more shutter speeds on the wheel (latter ones get less and less, until about 5 speeds I think, my early one has 7 speeds).
The early ones have aluminium frame counter wheels on the top, later ones have black plastic ones.
The early ones have a different back (two horizontal lines and a film type indicator)
Later ones have a colored and a magnifying lens in the Rangefinder eyepiece.
There are a few more differences that I don't recall right away. No accessory shoe on early models. Argus logo not on the front panel on early ones. Early case has no provision for the side-mounted flash. Late case carries instructions for colour or B/W film.
I've bought both my C3's though Ebay. Usually not paying more then $5 to $10 minus shipping. A case and a flash holder might be included in the price.
Experiences: Adjust the shutter cocking lever so that it doesn't catch your fingers when firing the shutter.
Ergonomics? Who needs them when you have an indestructable 'brick'.
No double-exposure protection, so a bit of routine is required.
The coated Cintar lens is quite capable of taking identifiable pictures and better too.
I hope that helps,
Whateverist
Well-known
Thank you, that helps a great deal. The ones with the aluminium counters look best in pictures, but I'm having a hard time finding one; however, there seem to be a few good early-fifties models on eBay right now.
By "adjust", do you mean it's just a matter of how you use it, or do you mean actually modifying the camera? Unless the lever is *really* dangerous, I'd rather keep it as-is and be extra careful.
By "adjust", do you mean it's just a matter of how you use it, or do you mean actually modifying the camera? Unless the lever is *really* dangerous, I'd rather keep it as-is and be extra careful.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
It's no big deal. I did it because I got clumsy big fingers and I ruined a few exposures.
It's a simple adjustment that was often done to the C-3s. It's a matter of:
Or leave it as it is and just be mindful where you put your fingers
It's a simple adjustment that was often done to the C-3s. It's a matter of:
- Unscrewing the lever from the shaft.
- turning the keeper nut on the shaft half a turn counter-clockwise
- screw lever back on shaft.
Or leave it as it is and just be mindful where you put your fingers
Muggins
Junk magnet
Ah, film speed dial, well reminded, thanks!
I have a Matchmatic - the oh-so-1950s two-tone model. On these, the shutter speeds and, I think, the aperture were indexed to the numbers on the lightmeter supplied as part of the Matchmatic kit, according to Argus' own scale. So they are numbered 4, 5, 6, 7, 8... This is great... except that the lightmeter is almost certainly completely dead!
The ACG website does, I think, have details of how these correspond with actual times, I think the range is 1/10 to 1/300, but it's much easier just to go sunny 16... err, sunny 8.
So if you want to save yourself a great deal of effort remembering what is what, avoid the Matchmatic uness you are, or have kids who are, a Harry Potter fan, or can live with sunny 8.
If you look at pics of C3s, you will often see ones with the cocking lever reversed - one wonders why Argus never turned it inwards... And yes, the lens is pretty damn sharp!
Adrian
I have a Matchmatic - the oh-so-1950s two-tone model. On these, the shutter speeds and, I think, the aperture were indexed to the numbers on the lightmeter supplied as part of the Matchmatic kit, according to Argus' own scale. So they are numbered 4, 5, 6, 7, 8... This is great... except that the lightmeter is almost certainly completely dead!
The ACG website does, I think, have details of how these correspond with actual times, I think the range is 1/10 to 1/300, but it's much easier just to go sunny 16... err, sunny 8.
So if you want to save yourself a great deal of effort remembering what is what, avoid the Matchmatic uness you are, or have kids who are, a Harry Potter fan, or can live with sunny 8.
If you look at pics of C3s, you will often see ones with the cocking lever reversed - one wonders why Argus never turned it inwards... And yes, the lens is pretty damn sharp!
Adrian
myoptic3
Well-known
I would think your price range is about right. If it were me I would hold out for a camera that the seller had actually run film through. They do come up. These cameras are like Zorki and Feds in that over the course of years people tend to do a lot of home repairs on them, and you are never sure what has gone down w/ the camera. Or they come from estate sales and have frozen shutters from not being used for decades. Your best bet is probably going to come from a US seller, and w/ shipping costs a return would not be that practical.
The C4 and C44's are nice too. More of a classic RF style. I paid $10 for my C4 and another $12 for shipping here in the states. The RF was off and someone had taken the lens apart some time in it's life and put it back together at the wrong point on the helical thread. The first roll was all out of focus. Fortunately I found a lot of help on web sites, fixed the lens problem and adjusted the RF (took the top pf the camera off w/ just a flat blade screwdriver) and was rewarded w/ a fine shooter. Here's a couple of shots from it.
The C4 and C44's are nice too. More of a classic RF style. I paid $10 for my C4 and another $12 for shipping here in the states. The RF was off and someone had taken the lens apart some time in it's life and put it back together at the wrong point on the helical thread. The first roll was all out of focus. Fortunately I found a lot of help on web sites, fixed the lens problem and adjusted the RF (took the top pf the camera off w/ just a flat blade screwdriver) and was rewarded w/ a fine shooter. Here's a couple of shots from it.
Attachments
Whateverist
Well-known
While the C4 looks like an interesting camera in its own right, I'm really after the C3's design.
Can a Matchmatic still be used without a working lightmeter, or does it need to be modified first?
Can a Matchmatic still be used without a working lightmeter, or does it need to be modified first?
Muggins
Junk magnet
I'm sure you could, but you'll need to find which shutter speeds and which aperture-openings match which number, then convert to more normal settings on your hand-held meter. Given the non-point-and-click nature of the C3, that's probably no greater a task than using one anyway!
Here's a pic nicely showing the speed dial: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Argus_C3_Matchmatic.jpg
And a Flickr group with a discussion on those speeds and apertures:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/arguscg/discuss/72157605507566728/
Hope that helps,
Adrian
Here's a pic nicely showing the speed dial: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Argus_C3_Matchmatic.jpg
And a Flickr group with a discussion on those speeds and apertures:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/arguscg/discuss/72157605507566728/
Hope that helps,
Adrian
Whateverist
Well-known
That certainly helps. Thanks for all the info.
Austintatious
Well-known
racoll
Well-known
I have the C2, C3, and the Matchmatic and have used the latter two; the C2 has a few issues that need to be sorted out. I initially got the C3 because I thought it would make an interesting addition to my camera collection, never really intending to use it because I never really warmed up to it. One day quite some time ago, I decided to put film in it and actually put it to use and was shocked at the very good quality of the photos it produced. The lens is quite good and the photos are nice and sharp, a most pleasant surprise. Needless to say, it has seen a lot of use since then. Good luck with your search.
Andy
Andy
timmyd18
Established
my Matchmatic's light meter works great! only problem is that the matchmatic system, designed to prevent you from having to be thinking about exposure, makes it harder to think about it when you want to. it's a lot easier to say I need f/5.6 here than I need 8 here.
also, the shutter aperture pairs are assuming you're using fairly slow speed films.
i really like the camera though, the cintar lens and kodak gold 100 really has a vintage feel.
also, the shutter aperture pairs are assuming you're using fairly slow speed films.
i really like the camera though, the cintar lens and kodak gold 100 really has a vintage feel.
timmyd18
Established
and by "8" i don't mean f/8, just Argus C3 Matchmatic 8
raid
Dad Photographer
The 50/2.8 Cintar is an excellent lens. I took one roll of film today with it. We had dense fog in the morning, so I drove to the waterfront to capture photos of fishing boats and pelicans with the argus C-4. The C-44 has a 50/2.8 coated Cintagon. The C-3 has the 50/3.5 Cintar. All lenses are very good. I saw some B&W images from Russia that someone at PN took with his C44, and I was stunned at the beauty of the images. Hours later I ordered a C-44. Mine is a model that allows interchangeable lenses.
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Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I've never seen a C3 (and I have seen dozens of them at flea markets, antique shops, and garage sales) that had a usable rangefinder or viewfinder. Always fogged up or dirty to the point that you cannot see through them and most of them i have seen the rangefinder image wasn't visible, so you couldnt focus. Where are you guys finding them in usabe shape? I always thought they looked cool.
camera.bear
Well-known
As you may have read, a week ago I was given a C3 as an early Xmas present. The viewfined and rangefinder were both pretty dirty, otherwise the camera is in great condition and all functions seem to be working well. I was able to improve the viewing a lot just by cleaning the outside of the lenses without taking the camera apart. I'll probably do some more cleaning, but I could easily use it the way it is. Even before I did anything the rangefinder was usable and the yellow very distinguishable. I have the 100mm and 35mm lenses with the accessory viewfinder on the way and they should be delivered today. I am looking forward to shooting a roll this weekend.
Of course, one camera leads to another. I had to go on ebay and get myself an Argus C-44 as well that should be here in a few days. Another kit to build out. :bang:
The viewfined and rangefinder were both pretty dirty, otherwise the camera is in great condition and all functions seem to be working well. I was able to improve the viewing a lot just by cleaning the outside of the lenses without taking the camera apart. I'll probably do some more cleaning, but I could easily use it the way it is. Even before I did anything the rangefinder was usable and the yellow very distinguishable. I have the 100mm and 35mm lenses with the accessory viewfinder on the way and they should be delivered today. I am looking forward to shooting a roll this weekend.
Of course, one camera leads to another. I had to go on ebay and get myself an Argus C-44 as well that should be here in a few days. Another kit to build out. :bang:
raid
Dad Photographer
My C3 has a chrome front lens and the speed dial does not have colored speeds marked except one speed in red.
Whateverist
Well-known
Well, it's taken me nearly half a year, but I just bought my first C3
Yeah. Slow and steady wins the race...
Yeah. Slow and steady wins the race...