Leica LTM Leica IIIc body shell

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
colyn said:
Is there any difference between the body shell of the wartime IIIc and post war IIIc?
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Wartime IIIC`s had an extra screw in the top plate (on the corner side of shell, same side as the film advance knob) Postwar cameras after the 470xxx? series didn`t have this anymore

Wartime shells were bare aluminum, postwar one`s were painted flat black, vulcanite also changed like twice during the war and ran into the late forties, until the sharkskin material came out in 1947/49 era

Tom
 
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Thanks Tom

The reason I asked is because I bought a 41/42 vintage IIIc with FL# and bad vulcanite with a pc socket in the front. I have an early post war shell with the extra screw hole that I was thinking about swapping out.
 
LeicaTom said:
Wartime IIIC`s had an extra screw in the top plate (on the corner side of shell, same side as the film advance knob) Postwar cameras after the early 400000 series didn`t have this anymore

Wartime shells were bare aluminum, postwar one`s were painted flat black, vulcanite also changed like twice during the war and ran into the late forties, until the sharkskin material came out in 1947/49 era

Tom
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Tom, I thought all the Barnack cameras had brass bodies.....is that not correct?

Thanks.

Ray
 
Ray,

The shells stayed bare aluminum from the start of production in 1940 till they started to paint the shells around late 1945/early 1946 with a flat black paint base paint.......(you see this if the vulcanite has fallen off your camera)

Colyn,

I`m not 100% sure that vulcanite is the same pattern, I think the pattern`s changed in 1943 and pre 43' vulcanite is different than post 1943 styled? I`m not sure all my cameras with original vulcanite are still out west with Leo for their CLA, but they should be back soon, then I can check it all out

Tom
 
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Ray,

The older series (up to IIIb, I think) had brass built-up construction for the internals, from the IIIc the shutter crate was an alloy casting.

The body shell has always been an aluminium alloy extrusion. Certainly all the ones I have seen right back to 1928 have been - can't vouch for the prototypes though 🙂
 
LeicaTom said:
Colyn,

I`m not 100% sure that vulcanite is the same pattern, I think the pattern`s changed in 1943 and pre 43' vulcanite is different than post 1943 styled? I`m not sure all my cameras with original vulcanite are still out west with Leo for their CLA, but they should be back soon, then I can check it all out

Tom
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The vulcanite on my IIIb is different than the vulcanite on my 402xxx early post war IIIc.

I had a late wartime IIIc that had the same as the IIIb.

My II and IIIa are different than the above..

I plan to use the camera for its intended purpose but will keep the original shell in case I ever need it for whatever..
 
LeicaTom said:
Wartime IIIC`s had an extra screw in the top plate (on the corner side of shell, same side as the film advance knob) Postwar cameras after the early 400000 series didn`t have this anymore

Wartime shells were bare aluminum, postwar one`s were painted flat black, vulcanite also changed like twice during the war and ran into the late forties, until the sharkskin material came out in 1947/49 era

Tom
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I just picked up a IIIC in a deal with some other cameras that
has this extra screw on the side. It's serial is 4026xx which
agrees with the number on the chassis, so I guess some
wartime parts were used post-war. Shell is aluminum and
painted black. It does not have the upper ball bearing race
in the chassis, as my '49 IIIC does. When did Leica start
installing the postwar bearing race, '47 ?

Thanks,
Martin
 
martin_t said:
I just picked up a IIIC in a deal with some other cameras that
has this extra screw on the side. It's serial is 4026xx which
agrees with the number on the chassis, so I guess some
wartime parts were used post-war. Shell is aluminum and
painted black. It does not have the upper ball bearing race
in the chassis, as my '49 IIIC does. When did Leica start
installing the postwar bearing race, '47 ?

Thanks,
Martin
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These questions are all being researched by Leo B. and I about the bearing issue from 1940 onwards (concerning Leica IIIC)

The #402xxx issue cameras should be identical to the last of the wartime styled IIIC `s made (#397xxx series) from early 1946, these have the crossover bearings (what we used to call "Half Race") but due to technical advise from experts, the term does`nt really make sense, so I now call these cameras "Crossover" bearing cameras, these are the cameras produced between the Full Race "Kugellager" ball bearing Leica IIIC K`s and the Leica IIIFBD era cameras

It could be that 1947 to 1950 era cameras have a different setup internally than the "Crossover" cameras do, but I`ll let Leo answer that,
(maybe we need a pre IIIFBD camera term as well?)
- while he does all the tearing down and verifications of bearing settings via professional CLA and X-RAY

The Alu shell painted black is original as was all post Dec. 1945 Screw Mount Leica cameras

In all the history of Leica cameras, the IIIC goes down as one of the most modifed of all cameras, both in TEST and PRODUCTION forms, changing at least 5 to 7 times, this is all being figured out for our book which I`m sure will be coming together in the next year or so - Stay Tuned!

Tom
 
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As I have worked with the various shells for our study camera group (>20 cameras from the wartime era) there are very slight changes in the shell interiors which I have attributed so far to individual machinist differences.

It is not until the "Sharkskins" that there is a major change in the shell interior machining.

As long as the shell has the 5th hole over the lug ring, it is from the wartime era supply that they were working through.

So, Colyn, I think there are no issues in making the change that you want to.

More to follow .... We have to start writing all of this up....😀
 
DrLeoB said:
As long as the shell has the 5th hole over the lug ring, it is from the wartime era supply that they were working through.

So, Colyn, I think there are no issues in making the change that you want to.

More to follow .... We have to start writing all of this up....😀
Click to expand...

I tried it and the crate fits as it should.
Thanks
 
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