Olsen
Well-known
Most Europeans I know hope that Obama will win. Even he will turn out to be to the right in any European political scale.
Back in 91 a friend of mine and I drove across USA. From LA to NY. (- My wife had to do a university degree and could not partipate, - and I tease her often by saying that this was 'the best holiday I have ever had'). What struck me was how close Americans and Europeans are regarding 'values' - to put it simply. Even though I had been to USA several times before, on business trips to NY and short trips visiting relatives in Minnesota, we had never seen such beautiful landscapes as the deserts out west, the Big Sur, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Death Valley and all the other national parks we visited. It certainly got my photography started again after a long hybernation. We were on a tight budget so we stayed at all the cheapest motels we could find in the AAA catalogues. We played poker with illegal Mexican fruit pickers (and lost big) in California and gambled and had a hell of a night in Las Vegas, - possibly the most 'European' city in America, to my view. Our car broke down in Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, right at the roadcross between road no. 44 and 73. The Native Americans we met went out of their way to help us.Rright here, we experienced a rainstorm something of the heftiest I have ever experienced, sayes a lot, i live in Norway. And we visited relatives in the Minneapolis/St.Paul area, a continous event of grill parties at close - and not so close relatives. 'Dont tell anyone that you are Norwegians, otherwise you will never get away from this place', someone said. So, 'America' brings many good memories. My father travelled across USA during WWII and has similar experience.
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micromontenegro
Well-known
I've just read the FAQ from to to bottom and couldn't find anything that forbids talking about politics. I must be becoming slow with age.
My two cents: I don't really care if we can talk about politics or not. Would lean towards yes if kept civil. Nevertheless, I find it extremely weird that we have an off-topic section, but keep reading the the same "this is a forum about rangefinders!" Lets kill the OT section then.
nico
Well-known
"je suis an anarchiste"
HCB
HCB
To help you better understand the financial crisis in which our country
finds itself, I have attempted to put it in terms common people, like you
and me, can easily understand:
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you
would have $49.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one
year ago, you would have $33.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares
in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you would have $0.00 today. But, if you had
purchased $1,000 worth of Beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned
in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you would have received $214.00.
Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily
&am p;
recycle. It is called the 401-Keg. A recent study found that the average
American walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found that Americans
drink, on average, 22 gallons of alcohol a year. That means that, on
average, Americans get about 41 miles to the gallon!
How many MPG do your countrymen get?
finds itself, I have attempted to put it in terms common people, like you
and me, can easily understand:
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you
would have $49.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one
year ago, you would have $33.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares
in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you would have $0.00 today. But, if you had
purchased $1,000 worth of Beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned
in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you would have received $214.00.
Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily
&am p;
recycle. It is called the 401-Keg. A recent study found that the average
American walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found that Americans
drink, on average, 22 gallons of alcohol a year. That means that, on
average, Americans get about 41 miles to the gallon!
How many MPG do your countrymen get?
chris000
Landscaper
I'm not bothered what people discuss on here - I just don't read threads that don't interest me.
I don't discuss politics because I know more than I wish to about British politics, relatively little about US politics, and nothing at all about anywhere else in the world ..... despite the fact that would seem to make me well qualified
Peace and good will to all.
I don't discuss politics because I know more than I wish to about British politics, relatively little about US politics, and nothing at all about anywhere else in the world ..... despite the fact that would seem to make me well qualified
Peace and good will to all.
Olsen
Well-known
Ha, ha, ha! Hilarious! I'll take this at lunch at work tomorrow. - So, don't say we don't get something out a little political discussion here at RFF. Rover, you are a vital contributor!
I knew it! That all this beer drinking was not wasted after all.
Right now I am drinking Lapin Kulta - excellent Finish beer, out of 0,33 l aluminium cans, bought tax free here http://www.vikingline.se/Pages/startpage/startpage.asp
A little advertising here: http://www.lapinkulta.fi/
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
So, to make a long story short, beer is a good inverstment as long as you don't buy it in bottles...
kshapero
South Florida Man
Both candidates will continue the downward spiral of doom to the western world. One with his Marxist ways and the other with his warmonger ways. Spend spend. Where does the money come from? THIN AIR!!! They are all clueless. Now I shall return to my mud hut in the Everglades. HUMMPH!!
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
'Recycling refund'?
What's that?
Here we are cajoled into recycling everything - but nobody ever mentioned a refund.
I heard that the city hall gets a big cheque from the EU if they get us to segregate our trash. To encourge recycling. But the authorities have no viable means of dealing with the glass, the cans, the plastic, the paper and so on so they just dump it all together in a big hole in the ground.
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NickTrop
Veteran
Obama - shoots Tri-X in a rangefinder, develops and prints his own black and white.
Biden - Film SLR guy, color prints, minilab.
Old Man McCane - Aids take pics for him with a digital P&S
Palin - what's a camera?
Biden - Film SLR guy, color prints, minilab.
Old Man McCane - Aids take pics for him with a digital P&S
Palin - what's a camera?
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I'm betting Palin in a camera phone kind of woman...
kshapero
South Florida Man
All four are idiots. Back into my mud hut!!
Nh3
Well-known
I for one is ready to welcome our new overlord China.
/Gone to delete all his pro-Tibetan propaganda pictures...
/Gone to delete all his pro-Tibetan propaganda pictures...
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Ralph and Nick, you guys alone rescued this thread. Thanks!! 
And I mean, a lot!!
And I mean, a lot!!
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Thardy
Veteran
He shoots with an iPod.
I see Bushie more as an Ebony user ...
Krosya
Konicaze
Nah, he has a special Leica made for him - M-16
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I admire Olsen for courageously raising this issue even if I do not agree with his point of view and consider some things he says inaccurate.
Politics in our age is *intrinsically* connected to the image. In theory, this would be sufficient reason for a mature site (i.e., one with multiple, highly diversified forums) devoted to the photographic art of creating images to include a space for discussion of related political, social and philosophical issues. I had originally thought that the new "philosophy" forum was designed for just that. Apparently we are being told by responsible members whom I admire that such is not the case. This is disappointing.
I will describe in three points first what I see as a reality at RFF, second a criticism of its development, and third a positive suggestion for improvement.
First, the fact:
1) this site has evolved to become predominantly a consumer site catering to a niche market that relies on English as a lingua franca.
Disclaimer: If you read the archives, it is very clear that RFF used to be something like a community when it first started out and membership was relatively small, but those days are gone and the site has definitively changed.
Second, the negative:
2) the discord that arises here on a (an amazing panoply of consumer bashing) is nothing other than the daily evidence, if any more were needed, that a group of consumers, or even 'people with interests', does not constitute a community. Never has and never will. This is one of the fundamentally flawed assumptions of modern societies built on the basis of homo economicus.
For a forum with 25,000+ members, the discussion is surprisingly exclusive. most members are relatively silent. Among the few women who post some will occasionally remind us, with good humor, that not everybody here is a man. Some of the Europeans will remind us that not everybody is an anglophone. People in other regions mostly keep their opinions to themselves and post on their own language forums, which says a lot.
Now, a positive suggestion:
3) consumerism plus English as a lingua franca in itself isn't a problem, and in fact it presents us with the amazing possibility for increased communication.
my suggestion is that Stephen and the moderators should consider making organizational changes that will involve more of the diverse 25,000 members who are more often than not silent. I'd suggest having moderators from different gender, regional, linguistic etc groups. Not for the purposes of representation but in order to stimulate more exchange about how to use RF imaging equipment to make socially-meaningful images.
I think by making some of these kind of changes, RFF will become a better site with more widely diversified information and Stephen will benefit by assuring Cameraquest's growing position as a global retail supplier.
Politics in our age is *intrinsically* connected to the image. In theory, this would be sufficient reason for a mature site (i.e., one with multiple, highly diversified forums) devoted to the photographic art of creating images to include a space for discussion of related political, social and philosophical issues. I had originally thought that the new "philosophy" forum was designed for just that. Apparently we are being told by responsible members whom I admire that such is not the case. This is disappointing.
I will describe in three points first what I see as a reality at RFF, second a criticism of its development, and third a positive suggestion for improvement.
First, the fact:
1) this site has evolved to become predominantly a consumer site catering to a niche market that relies on English as a lingua franca.
Disclaimer: If you read the archives, it is very clear that RFF used to be something like a community when it first started out and membership was relatively small, but those days are gone and the site has definitively changed.
Second, the negative:
2) the discord that arises here on a (an amazing panoply of consumer bashing) is nothing other than the daily evidence, if any more were needed, that a group of consumers, or even 'people with interests', does not constitute a community. Never has and never will. This is one of the fundamentally flawed assumptions of modern societies built on the basis of homo economicus.
For a forum with 25,000+ members, the discussion is surprisingly exclusive. most members are relatively silent. Among the few women who post some will occasionally remind us, with good humor, that not everybody here is a man. Some of the Europeans will remind us that not everybody is an anglophone. People in other regions mostly keep their opinions to themselves and post on their own language forums, which says a lot.
Now, a positive suggestion:
3) consumerism plus English as a lingua franca in itself isn't a problem, and in fact it presents us with the amazing possibility for increased communication.
my suggestion is that Stephen and the moderators should consider making organizational changes that will involve more of the diverse 25,000 members who are more often than not silent. I'd suggest having moderators from different gender, regional, linguistic etc groups. Not for the purposes of representation but in order to stimulate more exchange about how to use RF imaging equipment to make socially-meaningful images.
I think by making some of these kind of changes, RFF will become a better site with more widely diversified information and Stephen will benefit by assuring Cameraquest's growing position as a global retail supplier.
Bingley
Veteran
No, President Palin will be deadlocked with everyone else (but at least she can see Russia!).
Steve
UC Berkeley '75
That said... I agree w/ Francisco's assessment:
"endustry, you made a good point when you say that a self-attrtibuted freedom of speech is totalitarianism upside-down. While we can say what we want when we want it, we also must keep in mind that our rights end where others' begin.
There have been several threads about politics in this forum, Olsen; if you look for them, you'll find them, but like Kully said, reading them had a strange effect on the opinion I had of some members. I learned, however, that we can overcome our differences and look for what binds us (photography and cameras) instead. In any event, the discussions were always very even, reasoned, cool and relatively calm, even though most of us were, say, against the beliefs of the then owner of this forum. Sure, you can start one, but keep in mind that this isn't your house but a privately owned forum and we're guests."
I certainly don't object to political discussions, but that's not why I come to RFF.
DelDavis
.
Last time I was in Oslo they didn't have multitudinous sexy leaflets littering the streets while a hundred people dressed as pirates, maidens, and alligators flew through the air avoiding pillars of flame.
But it's been a few years. Maybe it's time for another trip to Norway!