Summicron 50mm RD does not kick 50mm frame

P

pvg

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2:20 PM
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Apr 11, 2005
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Dear all,

This is my first thread. I have purchased from two different, reputable dealers, a Leica M4-2 (1526XXX) and a Summicron 50mm RD . I have received the camera a couple of days ago and the lens today. If I insert the Color Skopar Classic 35mm f2.5 with the Cosina M bayonet adaptor ring (35-135) (I have the lens/adapter combination for use with a Bessa T), the lens kicks the correct frames. When I remove the lens with the adaptor and I install the M-bayonet DR Summicron, I see the same two frames (35/135), not the 50 frame. I have observed that although the Summicron lens seems to fit well, it does not “click.” The Summicron shows beautiful glass but the exterior of the lens indicates substantial use; the camera looks almost new. Moving the camera preview frame line lever makes the finder snap without sticking. I am assuming there is something wrong with the lens but I am a new Leica user, and I cannot judge. I would appreciate advise. Thank you in advance,

Pablo
 
Remove the lens from the body, set the Lens to Infinity focus and leave it there, then mount it to the Camera body, it should click good now. Let me know if it works.
 
Hi. Thanks for the suggestion but it did not work.

I have observed now with a loupe that the rear surface of the flange has many nicks, which is worrisome.
 
The 35/135 frame lines are the default position when nothing is pushing the actuating mechanism inside the camera's lens mount. This should be pushed by the bayonet lug on the lens closest to the preview lever. The 50mm lens should have a long enough lug to do this. The 35mm lens doesn't have to do anything to get the 35mm frame to show up. Either somebody has filed the lug on the lens, very unlikely, or the mechanism in the camera is broken. The lens clicking in place problem, again, could be either the lens or the body, but if one lens clicks and the other doesn't then it's a lens problem since you know the camera clicks. Call both dealers and tell them that you're returning the items. Insist that they pay return shipping for sending defective merchandise. Good luck and sorry that your introduction to the Leica World got off to a bad start.


Look inside the camera's lens opening while moving the manual frame selector lever back and forth. You should see something moving up and down where the bayonet lug would hit it. I suspect that the camera's linkage is what's broken and needs to be repaired.
 
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Thank you, Al, for your detailed answer.

Unfortunately, I do not have a third lens (another 50mm or a lens with a focal distance different from 35mm) to test the camera. I saw that something moves when I move the lever. In regards to your comment: “I suspect that the camera's linkage is what's broken and needs to be repaired,” I have a question: Could this explanation be true even considering that the Skopar clicks when it engages? (I think from my trials that the Summicron is not engaging at all.)
 
The 50 Summicron should also click when it is fully rotated. If it does not click, it is probably not fully rotated. And if it is not fully rotated until it seats, the bayonet lug will not actuate the 50mm frameline, for reasons Al explained, above. The lens appears to be the culprit. The nicks you observed on the flange sound like a probable explanation for why it won't seat fully.

I'm not clear about one thing: when you move the frameline lever by hand, can you bring up the 50mm frameline that way? If not, that would change everything. It would indicate that the camera has a problem.

By the way, the M4-2 was not Leica's finest: they have been known to have problems.
 
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Look at the Summicron where the lens fits into the camera's flange. The indentation where the camera's locking mechanism (next to the lens release button) fits should have clean edges, not rounded off from wear, and the indentation shouldn't be half filled with crud. Also make sure that the lens is actually turning far enough for that "lock" to get into the lens's indentation.

Since both lenses you own have the same indentation there you can compare how they look, one to the other. It has to either be that the lens won't lock because that piece of metal attatched to the release button isn't staying in the lens's indentation for whatever reason, or the lens isn't turning far enough to engage it. (LIGHT BULB LIGHTING UP IN MY BRAIN!) If the lens isn't turning far enough to engage the locking mechanism it isn't turning far enough to push the frame selector linkage. Now you jusn need to figure out why the lens isn't turning far enough. It's most likely a lens problem because the other lens locks in place. (it's now 12:30 AM on the East Coast. I'll check back after my brain rests up.)
 
Thank you, Rob. When I move the frameline lever by hand, I can see the 50mm frameline. I am inclined to follow your advice and return the lens first (this is also consistent with Al's first interpretation).
 
Al: First, thank you again for staying late and for helping me (I will look for your answer tomorrow). I think the lens is not turning far enough, but I am not completely sure. I have now compared the M-bayonet adapter ring with the Summicron. The lug of the adapter is smooth and the edges are well defined. The lug of the Summicron has irregular borders, and the lug's very front part (the part of the lug that should engage first) protrudes internally, perhaps 2/8 of a milimiter or less (I can sense it with my finger; the internal edge, in addition, feels like an irregular knife's edge when I touch it). There is also a clear nick in the middle of the lug.
 
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I would also conclude that the problem is with the mount on the lens. Did you buy the lens in person? If so, bring it back to the dealer, along with your camera, so you can test another lens to verify that the body is not the culprit. If so, the dealer should refund you for the lens.
 
The best thing would be to test the lens on another body and the body with another lens. Where are you located? Maybe somebody on the forum lives nearby or knows of another Leica shooter who does.
 
Hi. Thank you. I will be traveling this weekend and time is tight. I have talked with the dealer and explained the findings. He agrees with my decision to return the lens. Thank you for great advice.
Pablo
 
By the way, unexpectedly, I have been able to test the camera with two other 50mm lenses, and these worked OK. Diagnosis: Faulty lens. Thanks a lot.
 
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