tedwin
Established
Maybe, to be sure I'm not too dim, I should quote both of you..
wizofz2k "In mine, the vertical adjust had a Philips (cross) head, while the big one for framing is the traditional slot head"
I appreciate that this is not a course, but you both clearly state that you know the adjustment for vertical alignment, through practice I have discovered that its not the one jjovin states it is, hence I wanted to double check with you.
So the vertical adjust Philips (cross) head screw that alters the vertical alignment in your camera, is that the black one towards the rear of the camera body through the triangular hole on the left under the hot shoe?
Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.
Ted.
P.S. for anybody reading this that thinks its too complicated to discuss on a forum, under the hotshoe there are a total of three screws visible, two flat head, one philips.
wizofz2k
Member
Fair enough. My apologies if I sounded a bit terse. It's just that I don't want folks to wreck their cameras by doing something they are not prepared or able to do.
As explained in my first reply to that question, I don't know what adjusts the vertical framing. Thought Zoran meant the cross-head screw. That one does not do much in my camera, other than slightly change the overall alignment diagonally. I left it alone since it wasn't clear what the effect was.
Didn't see any other easily visible or reachable screws anywhere, so I'm afraid I really can't help much with the vertical framing. My objective was to fix the r/f far adjust and that worked as in the procedure I described.
If I find a way to take the whole top off, I'll report back. That would certainly be the way to go for a much more detailed and safe examination of the mechanism. Pity no one has been able to publish a service manual and for obvious reasons Zeiss is not forthcoming with one.
As explained in my first reply to that question, I don't know what adjusts the vertical framing. Thought Zoran meant the cross-head screw. That one does not do much in my camera, other than slightly change the overall alignment diagonally. I left it alone since it wasn't clear what the effect was.
Didn't see any other easily visible or reachable screws anywhere, so I'm afraid I really can't help much with the vertical framing. My objective was to fix the r/f far adjust and that worked as in the procedure I described.
If I find a way to take the whole top off, I'll report back. That would certainly be the way to go for a much more detailed and safe examination of the mechanism. Pity no one has been able to publish a service manual and for obvious reasons Zeiss is not forthcoming with one.
clicker
Well-known
question on infiniti
question on infiniti
If the images in the viewfinder don't quite match at infiniti will it matter in the end.Will the developed film image be out of focus with infiniti shot images or is this simply a viewing problem?
question on infiniti
If the images in the viewfinder don't quite match at infiniti will it matter in the end.Will the developed film image be out of focus with infiniti shot images or is this simply a viewing problem?
tedwin
Established
Hello
On mine, the rangefinder patch never quite reaches infinity. For instance when the focus ring on the lens is turned all the way to the infinity stop, the two images have not yet reached alignment on distant objects (not even that distant, less than a kilometer) This has had no effect on my images, most lenses go hyperfocal (is that the right term?) long before that anyway so I assume that it shouldn't matter.
Long story short, if the pictures are in focus, and in focus where you intended, then I wouldn't worry.
On mine, the rangefinder patch never quite reaches infinity. For instance when the focus ring on the lens is turned all the way to the infinity stop, the two images have not yet reached alignment on distant objects (not even that distant, less than a kilometer) This has had no effect on my images, most lenses go hyperfocal (is that the right term?) long before that anyway so I assume that it shouldn't matter.
Long story short, if the pictures are in focus, and in focus where you intended, then I wouldn't worry.
wizofz2k
Member
If the inifinity rangefinder indicator is off when you set the lens to infinity, then it does not affect any image taken at that setting and within the hyperfocal limits.
If you are using wide open apertures to reduce depth of field at intermediate distances and relying on the superposition in the rangefinder to get the focus plane spot-on, then it does matter a lot.
If you are using wide open apertures to reduce depth of field at intermediate distances and relying on the superposition in the rangefinder to get the focus plane spot-on, then it does matter a lot.
peripatetic
Well-known
I just got mine back from Zeiss in Germany, RF now perfect.
Needless to say I didn't feel up to adjusting it myself.
Needless to say I didn't feel up to adjusting it myself.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
Removing the hot-shoe is pretty simple. The black plastic isolator collar even has a small indent for the prying screw driver blade.
Turning a screw slightly clockwise or counter-clockwise is not such a special skill only watch makers have.
The trick is to wind a couple of elastic bands or slip a length of surgical tubing onto the screw driver handle first...enhances the grip tremendously and prevents excessive torquing causing the blade to slip-off the screw head. [I used a large screw driver handle collar.] Making sure the screw drivers are the correct sizes is very important ...watch makers do that for every screw.
I agree with the "seek-focus" method used by "mfogiel" as described in a post above. The marked focusing distance on the lens barrel is approximate at best. Once the closest focus or most-used focus distance is verified using a focusing screen placed at film plane, the rangefinder can then be positively set, double check infinity focus by all means.
[I used a Nikon F2 Type D (all matte) focusing screen, buy one on eBay if you must. Nikon focusing screens are slightly proud of the metal frame, which ensures the matte screen surface can rest correctly on the top surface of the inner film guide rails. (The outer guide rails include the thickness of film, don't use them.)]
Infinity focus is, for all lens apertures, practically hyper-focus. Our eyes are not that good. ZM's effective rangefinder base of 55.5mm (75mm x 0.74), although long, is no real help. I use a Nikon F2 Eyepiece Magnifier (DG-1), which uses the same thread size as the ZM eyepiece (as are all Nikon Diopter correction lenses) and provides 2X magnification...resulting in an effective 111mm rangefinder base. You can immediately see the difference.
By the way, I also use the focusing screen method to verify lens coverage against the bright frame line, and lens hood vignetting.
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lshofstra
Established
Ok guys, any news on vertical alignment? I've fiddled with my Zeiss following the "guidlines" above and didn't find it particularly hard. But the left screw indeed only has an effect on infinity overlap, the Philips one doesn't feel like an adjustment screw (as turning it indeed has no noticable effect other than coming loose). So the mystery remains.....
monopix
Cam repairer
Some pictures
Some pictures
I don't know how much I can add to this thread but, for what it's worth...
My ZM was out of vertical alignment and I had it adjusted by a local repairer (Malcolm Taylor for those in the UK). He hadn't done a ZM before but said he'd look at it and he did fix it. When I spoke to him afterwards, he said he was able to access everything without removing the top plate. He mentioned removing the flash shoe but I don't know if that's all he removed. Anyway, it is possible to adjust without removing the top plate.
I took the flash shoe off mine and took a couple of pictures. The first one shows the two slotted screws. This also shows the screws are surrounded by a brass (yellow anyway) plate and the screws are in slots cut in this plate. It looks like the screw heads are probably offset and turning them moves the plate one way or the other. Also note the brass stud which appears to limit the movement in some way.
(Edit: this pic is reversed)
The other picture shows the black cross head screw. On mine, it's clearly been sealed with some green stuff to stop it turning. I'd be interested to know if this green stuff is on others as well or maybe my repairer put it on. This screw seems to lock the brass plate to the one underneath.
(Edit: so's this one)
My interpretation of this is that you need to loosen the black screw to allow the brass plate to move, then make adjustments with the two slotted screws, then lock it up by tightening the black screw again.
Hope this make sense. Happy to hear other opinions of what we can see.
Thinking about this some more, these two screws look like they only adjust distance, maybe near and infinity adjustments. I don't see how they could effect vertical alignment.
Some pictures
I don't know how much I can add to this thread but, for what it's worth...
My ZM was out of vertical alignment and I had it adjusted by a local repairer (Malcolm Taylor for those in the UK). He hadn't done a ZM before but said he'd look at it and he did fix it. When I spoke to him afterwards, he said he was able to access everything without removing the top plate. He mentioned removing the flash shoe but I don't know if that's all he removed. Anyway, it is possible to adjust without removing the top plate.
I took the flash shoe off mine and took a couple of pictures. The first one shows the two slotted screws. This also shows the screws are surrounded by a brass (yellow anyway) plate and the screws are in slots cut in this plate. It looks like the screw heads are probably offset and turning them moves the plate one way or the other. Also note the brass stud which appears to limit the movement in some way.
(Edit: this pic is reversed)
The other picture shows the black cross head screw. On mine, it's clearly been sealed with some green stuff to stop it turning. I'd be interested to know if this green stuff is on others as well or maybe my repairer put it on. This screw seems to lock the brass plate to the one underneath.
(Edit: so's this one)
My interpretation of this is that you need to loosen the black screw to allow the brass plate to move, then make adjustments with the two slotted screws, then lock it up by tightening the black screw again.
Hope this make sense. Happy to hear other opinions of what we can see.
Thinking about this some more, these two screws look like they only adjust distance, maybe near and infinity adjustments. I don't see how they could effect vertical alignment.
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lshofstra
Established
green stuff
green stuff
Didn't notice any green stuff on the Philips screw on mine. At least that would suggest this screw plays some part (if your repairman put it there.....)
green stuff
Didn't notice any green stuff on the Philips screw on mine. At least that would suggest this screw plays some part (if your repairman put it there.....)
monopix
Cam repairer
More screws to fiddle with...
More screws to fiddle with...
Well I did a bit more poking around with mine. I suspected my repairer had removed the shutter speed dial as there were signs the screw in the middle had been removed. I ordered a proper screwdriver which arrived today and off came the dial.
Underneath is another screw which is immediately behind the rangefinder window and, on mine, it's definitely been undone as you can see signs of the original green sealant, as is on the other crosshead screw on mine, and also some new sealant. This is also a crosshead screw but it is in the middle of, what looks like, a slotted screw. So, again, I think the crosshead is a locking screw. Looks like you remove it, adjust the slotted screw underneath, then replace the crosshead to lock it.
Here's some pictures.
Also, there's another slotted screw that can be seen in the first picture. Don't know how you might get onto it because of it's angle and I'm guessing it's for something different but it looks like some kind of adjustment. Here's another pic.
I've not tried to adjust anything as mine's OK and I don't want to screw it up, so can't be sure but my guess is one of these screws does the vertical alignment and I would put my money on the one which has the crosshead screw locking it.
Anyone prepared to have a go...?
More screws to fiddle with...
Well I did a bit more poking around with mine. I suspected my repairer had removed the shutter speed dial as there were signs the screw in the middle had been removed. I ordered a proper screwdriver which arrived today and off came the dial.
Underneath is another screw which is immediately behind the rangefinder window and, on mine, it's definitely been undone as you can see signs of the original green sealant, as is on the other crosshead screw on mine, and also some new sealant. This is also a crosshead screw but it is in the middle of, what looks like, a slotted screw. So, again, I think the crosshead is a locking screw. Looks like you remove it, adjust the slotted screw underneath, then replace the crosshead to lock it.
Here's some pictures.
Also, there's another slotted screw that can be seen in the first picture. Don't know how you might get onto it because of it's angle and I'm guessing it's for something different but it looks like some kind of adjustment. Here's another pic.
I've not tried to adjust anything as mine's OK and I don't want to screw it up, so can't be sure but my guess is one of these screws does the vertical alignment and I would put my money on the one which has the crosshead screw locking it.
Anyone prepared to have a go...?
wizofz2k
Member
Excellent! Thanks heaps for sharing this, monopix.