New Kiev 2

[hks3sgte]

I just bought a Kiev 2 and I must say it exceeded my expectations. The shutter advance is very smooth, along with the focus wheel. The rangefinder patch is very contrasty and HUGE. The shutter is not even as loud as people make it seem. Definitely not as loud as the shutter on my FED-2. Only thing I would like is a bigger viewfinder, but still not that bad.

All in all, a great camera. For anyone thinking about one, buy one, and you'll love it!

 

[hks3sgte]

These are the pictures the seller provided...

 

[blazejs]

Beautiful camera!

 

[furcafe]

From Mr. Gandy's description of the Contax II/III (from which the Kievs were copied):

Rangefinder baselength was a gargantuan 90mm with a magnification of about .75, giving an effective baselength of an amazing 67.5 -- 8% longer than the Leica M3 and 15% more accurate than its contemporary Leica screw mount competitors.

As a point of comparison, the current Zeiss Ikon has an EBL of 55.9mm & your standard 0.72 Leica MP or M7 has an EBL of less than 50mm.

The base length on that thing looks immense.

 

[oftheherd]

That is a nice looking camera! I am sure you will like it. I find I am liking my Kiev 4am more and more all the time. Let us know how you like it in actual use.

 

[furcafe]

You're welcome. Yeah, it's a real difference, but it has its drawbacks. 1 of the problems that many people have w/the Contax II/III & the Kievs is that it can be easy to block the RF window w/your right-hand fingers (in their instruction manuals, Zeiss Ikon recommended an awkward "crab" grip where the user was supposed to use his/her middle finger to work the focus wheel & release the shutter w/the index finger). In their post-WWII IIa/IIIa models, ZI changed to a shorter baseline (in smaller bodies); Nikon did something similar w/their RFs.

Aha! So I wasn't just seeing things. That is pretty neat. Thanks for the information.

 

[ruben]

......1 of the problems that many people have w/the Contax II/III & the Kievs is that it can be easy to block the RF window w/your right-hand fingers (in their instruction manuals, Zeiss Ikon recommended an awkward "crab" grip where the user was supposed to use his/her middle finger to work the focus wheel & release the shutter w/the index finger). In their post-WWII IIa/IIIa models, ZI changed to a shorter baseline (in smaller bodies); Nikon did something similar w/their RFs.

I do agree and do not understand why the Zeiss designers or Kiev following manufacturers, didn't redressed this design fault via an external support for the smaller fingers. This was not an issue of technology.

The "Contax grip" is logical for the thumb, the index and middle fingers (the middle finger resting on the small wheel).

But then the two smaller fingers are requested by implication to perform two contradictory tasks. First and not fully ergonomically friendly, to counter-pressure the action of the thumb in the general gripping of the camera - a task which is somewhat unfortunate for the weakest fingers of the human hand.

Making it worse, is the fact that elevating the middle and index fingers over the top casting of the camera, creates a natural gravitation for the two smaller fingers to follow suit, and thus further weakening their counter-pressure task, or worse, naturally leading them to block the range finding window.

The whole mess could be avoided had the Zeiss designers or Kiev followers provided us with some kind of support for the smaller fingers, below and paralel to the range finding window. I, e, blocking the smaller fingers to go "top-wards". Had they provided it, the whole Contax grip would become much easier to follow.

Nevertheless, it is possible to overcome this problem with the help of some flat but a bit strong plastic strap of some 8 ~ 10 cm length, punching both extremes and inserting both extremes through the self timer outer and big screw, creating a kind of loop to give sustain for one of the smaller fingers. This mini strap will not offer a counter pressure barrier, but it will take care that the smaller fingers stay in place.

WARNING: the big screw of the self timer lever has very little tolerance for weight carriage (it wasn't designed at all for such a mission!), therefore the Kiev user interested in studying this method, MUST take care the plastic strap is indeed FLAT, not only strong, to enable the self timer screw to return as much as possible to its almost full screwing limits.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Peter_Jones]

I don't find Kievs particularly difficult to grip. (that is, without the ERC/half-case attached) I find my palm sort of grips the camera between the base of the thumb and the palm, meaning the last 2 fingers are only supporting rather than gripping

 

[kuzano]

The shutter noise.... Bah!

The shutter noise.... Bah!

The shutter is not even as loud as people make it seem. Definitely not as loud as the shutter on my FED-2.

It's just a bit ridiculous to complain about shutter noise when the camera is two inches from your own ear. Give your camera to someone and stand next to them while they shoot it. You will likely say "Noise... What Noise????"

My Kiev (Kneb) is very quiet when someone else clicks the shutter.

And regarding the focus wheel/rangefinder window proximity, what did I miss from the manual. Is there some penalty, or will it break the camera if I reach under the body with my Left hand and focus the lens directly with my thumb and forefinger. That feels so much more natural to me. The Contax focus wheel reminds me too much of focusing an Argus and I have tried so hard to forget that Argus. But the nightmares keep coming back.

 

[hks3sgte]

I have a roll of expired Fuji NPZ 800. I'll let you guys know how it works. So far, I'm loving the Kiev.

 

[xayraa33]

it looks more to be a IIa with the flash sync removed.
notice the featherless rewind arrow and the name plate.

 

[40oz]

I never had a problem holding my Kiev's. I occasionally had to move a finger to focus, but that's the way it is, hardly a deal-breaker IMHO.

I typically focus with the lens, but the middle finger rests on or near the wheel for small adjustments. It's only practical to use with a 50mm anyway, so it's not like the camera can't be focused any other way. Since the lens that sits on my Kievs the most is a 50, I find the wheel a handy thing for fine focus adjustments.

FWIW, I really like my Kiev's. Only issue is a minor light leak in each one, and I'm too lazy and cheap to find a shop for a CLA. That might well be their Xmas present this year, though.

 

[hks3sgte]

it looks more to be a IIa with the flash sync removed.
notice the featherless rewind arrow and the name plate.

you're right... little details... Kiev 2, Kiev 2A... :bang:

strange that someone would remove the sync, more likely the rewind wheel was changed?

 

[xayraa33]

you're right... little details... Kiev 2, Kiev 2A... :bang:

strange that someone would remove the sync, more likely the rewind wheel was changed?

notice the export markings.

the II is more sought after than the IIa.
the IIa was the start of the quantity and quality slippery slope which was to end with the shoddy Kiev 4M and 4AM in the early 1980s.

 

[blw]

forget the grip on these things! My only problem is with the film transport. I can tape the leader to the take-up and I still get a case where once I get to the end of a roll, the take-up spins inside the rolled up exposed film and I take pictures that aren't being recorded.

Why does this problem go away with cameras with a fixed take-up spool?

I have lost so many pictures because of this phenomenon.

And yes, I could fix it if I would be more regimental with the film counter, but that's still a minor liability. The film wind should not advance AT ALL when I reach the end of the roll. THIS is the only thing I don't like about my Knebs.

 

[blw]

by the way...that is a nice looking 2A you have there.

 

[hks3sgte]

Thanks! 2A it is!

 

[Keith]

There's lots of things I really like about my Kiev II and it was interesting to take it out the other day with my S2 Nikon and do a shot for shot comparison. I'd find something I wanted to photograph, shoot it with the Kiev and then pick up the S2 and take the exact same shot with exactly the same settings. Aside from the ergonomic comparison of using the two cameras in this fashion I discovered some other interesting things when I developed the two films later ... both in the same tank to ensure a directly comparable result.

The shutter of the Kiev was every bit as accurate as my freshly CLA'd Nikon ... the Kiev came from Fedka!

The Kiev is actually quieter than the S2 but has a real kick that you feel through the camera ... especially at 1/50 and 1/125 and if you're not gripping the camera properly it will give you a little motion blur. The S2 produces no noticable shutter reaction and is consequently sharper at lower speeds ... perhaps this is a side effect of the vertically travelling metal curtains ... I'm sure Ruben will have a theory on this!

The rangefinder of the Kiev is actually better than the Nikon ... it has sharper contrast.

Viewfinder accuracy of the Kiev is a joke ... the Nikon is superb here. Going through all the shots later I was amazed at how badly I'd framed a lot of pics with the Kiev and if I hadn't had the direct comparison of the S2 shots I wouldn't have realised just how bad the Kiev actually is. As for the viewfinders themselves ... one's a small dark tunnel and one isn't!

Film adavance is not a fair comparison because the Nikon has lever ... but the Kiev is surprisingly good and it's smoothness impresses me. Frame spacing was not as good as the Nikon's which was absolutely perfect but very good none the less.

And finally ... the J-3 that I had mounted on the Kiev actually performed better IMO than the 1.4 SC Nikkor on the S2. The two sets of negs confirmed this straight away.

My conclusion was that the Kiev is more than a match for my S2 and cost a quarter of the price ... add that to the fact that I haven't had to do a thing to it it in the two years I've owned it and makes it a very, very good camera. I guess I was lucky when I bought it because you certainly hear the odd Kiev horror story but mine is the very early Kneb example and I've read that they are superior in their build etc. The viewfinder I can live with ... it's poor accuracy can be compensated for and the tunnel like darkness of it just means it's not a great camera to choose for low natural light situations!

 

[kuzano]

forget the grip on these things! My only problem is with the film transport. I can tape the leader to the take-up and I still get a case where once I get to the end of a roll, the take-up spins inside the rolled up exposed film and I take pictures that aren't being recorded.

Why does this problem go away with cameras with a fixed take-up spool?

I have lost so many pictures because of this phenomenon.

And yes, I could fix it if I would be more regimental with the film counter, but that's still a minor liability. The film wind should not advance AT ALL when I reach the end of the roll. THIS is the only thing I don't like about my Knebs.

I think I also have the problem you are talking about. As near as I can tell the takeup spool has to be adjusted (the screw in the middle, looking up at the spool when the back is off) to a fairly specific clutch type of friction. Sometimes when I adjust this screw I get it right for a few rolls and then it happens again... the spool becomes loose in takeup and the film piles up because the sprockets drive the film onto the spool which is not picking up the film. Is that similar to your problem?

 

[blw]

Yes, kuzano, I believe it's something like that.


And keith mentioned something else that I just have to deal with I suppose. The frame spacing on mine is pretty tight too. It's typically only about 2 or 3 mm wide and makes it very hard to cut the film into strips for filing in my negative holders. It would be nice if there were a couple extra mms between the frames.