Medium format noob...

[ElectroWNED]

I'm thinking about entering into the TLR realm, but have a few questions about developing:

1. Are most metal/plastic spools universal in being able to take both 35mm and 120 film?

2. How do you know how much developer to use? According to the Massive Dev. Chart, TMax developer should be 1:4 ratio, but doesn't list mL's needed. (In the 35mm tanks at school, we use 50mL developer to 200mL water.)

I'll probably come up with more questions later 😱

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

Metal spools can only take the type of film they were made for. 35mm reels take 35mm film. 120 reels take 120 film. You might be able to wind 120 film on a 220 reel.

Plastic reels which have the notched center column can adjust to 35mm, 127, 120, and 220.

Not sure about Tmax but the manufacturers tech charts may be a good place to look for minimum amount of developer.

Xtol asks for a minimum of 150ml per roll of film. There's some debate about the min for Rodinal but it ranges from 3ml-10ml.
Dont know much beyond those two developer since those are my favorites.

 

[rogue_designer]

many plastic reels are adjustable to 120, but not all.

The metal reels, typically are one size only.

the amount of developer (in working solution) needed depends on the size of the tank you are using, and how many rolls you are doing (as well as the processing method - roller tanks usually use a bit less).

For a standard Patterson tank (1x120 or 2x35mm) You would typically double the amount you needed for a roll of 35, so instead of 300ml total, you would need roughly 600 ml total. Your proportions remain the same then, you just need to multiply accordingly to make up 600ml.)

 

[benlees]

Depends on the the tank but for 120 you generally need between 400-500ml of working solution for a one roll tank.

 

[ElectroWNED]

For a standard Patterson tank (1x120 or 2x35mm) You would typically double the amount you needed for a roll of 35, so instead of 300ml total, you would need roughly 600 ml total. Your proportions remain the same then, you just need to multiply accordingly to make up 600ml.)

okay, I figured it might be something logical, like double the amount, but wanted to make sure...


I'm guessing the 120 plastic spool is going to be bigger than the 25mm, so I probably need a wider dev. tank?


edit: we aren't using the Paterson tanks... we have stainless steel ones with stainless tops- might be a problem.

 

[rogue_designer]

okay, I figured it might be something logical, like double the amount, but wanted to make sure...


I'm guessing the 120 plastic spool is going to be bigger than the 25mm, so I probably need a wider dev. tank?

Taller. The diameter will be the same.

 

[ElectroWNED]

ahh okay... we have some taller, crappier tanks that I think might be for medium format.

thanks guys

 

[venchka]

Developer is cheap. Fill the tank.

From memory, a few bits of trivia:
8x10 equivalent = 35mm/36 exp. or 1 120 roll or 1 220 roll = 2 8x10s.
Kodak says stock solution/8x10 equivalent:
Xtol: 100ml/8x10 equivalent
D-76: 8 ozs./8x10 equivalent
Folks on this and other Forums report good results with half those amounts.

Agfa said:
10ml/8x10 equivalent
Again, reports range from 3ml to 6ml with good results.

What does it mean? In means if you want to use D-76 1:1 you mix 8 ozs. of D-76 stock solution with 8 ozs. of water. Stir it up real good. Pour in tank.

It also means: Mix. Stir. Pour. Mix when ready to use. For any diluted developer. Don't mix and then use later.

Example: I use Xtol 1:3 for almost everything in various tanks. For 120 I mix 200ml Xtol with 600ml water in a Paterson tank designed to hold 2 35mm reels or 1 120 reel. In my Jobo tanks, I use 400ml to 800ml depending on the tank and amount of film.

Delevoper is cheap. Ruined negatives are expensive. Use lots of developer.

 

[kully]

The amount of liquid needed to cover each reel in the tank will be on the bottom of the tank (the three brands of plastic tanks I've used have all had this info).

Patterson tanks seem to the most common and they come in the following sizes

1 x 135 or 0 x 120
3 x 135 or 2 x 120
5 x 135 or 3 x 120
8 x 135 or 5 x 120.

You need 300ml for 135 and 500ml for 120.

Before you develop your first exposed roll of 120, make sure you practice loading a scrap roll - it is more finnicky than 135 (which after 120, will seem like falling from a swing).

 

[sweathog]

Before you develop your first exposed roll of 120, make sure you practice loading a scrap roll - it is more finnicky than 135 (which after 120, will seem like falling from a swing).

Slightly OT, but I find 120 much easier than 135...

As most others have said, 2x what is needed for 135.

 

[delft]

If you want to be sure:
Insert an empty 120-spool in the tank, fill with water until spool is covered, measure amount of water needed to cover spool.

Good luck,
Dirk

 

[venchka]

And then round up. I think Paterson says something right at 600ml for 120 in a System 4 tank. Technically, 600ml will cover the spool. Barely. I round up. To 800ml. It works.

Same thing for the Jobo 2553 tank. I round up to 800ml. Developer is cheap. Lost photos are expensive.

Why would anyone even bother to read the numbers on the bottom of the tank when all you have to do is fill the tank up. Simple. Done.

Next question?

 

[kully]

Paterson system 4 tanks definitely specify 500ml for 120. That more than covers the film - no worries on leaving a strip of undev'd emulsion on top.

Why would you mess about with covering empty spools or filling up the liquid to the top when you can simply read the numbers on the bottom and then mix up the dev+water? Is it more ninja?

 

[Chris101]

If you have a tank that fits two 35mm reels, then it will fit one 120 sized reel.

 

[venchka]

I can read too

I can read too

Paterson system 4 tanks definitely specify 500ml for 120. That more than covers the film - no worries on leaving a strip of undev'd emulsion on top.

Why would you mess about with covering empty spools or filling up the liquid to the top when you can simply read the numbers on the bottom and then mix up the dev+water? Is it more ninja?

1. The math is easier to do in my head for 800ml of Xtol 1:3
2. Suppose the reel slips on the center tube? It happens.
3. With 800ml there is no possibility of exhausting the Xtol or not covering the reels. 800ml will hold it's temperature longer than 500ml.
4. Standardizing on 800ml for all formats insures uniform results with 3 different tanks.
5. I prefer to dispose of used Xtol. If I don't use it I will have to dispose of unused Xtol.
6. It's my film. It's my developer. I do as I please.
7. It's your film. It's your developer. Do as you please.
8. If you don't like my methods, ignore them. Questioning my methods is bad manners.

YMMV

 

[ElectroWNED]

whoa!

I found a Paterson dev. tank under the sink in the darkroom... I also learned that the darkroom has two 75mm enlarger lenses. My professor asked me what camera I had, and I told him I was looking for a Yashica-124 TLR. He said, "I have an old Rollei laying around if you want it..." then came back with a Lubitel 166U in mint condition. He gave it to me! 😀

I bought a roll of 120 yesterday, and have been running through it today. Tomorrow I'll develop/contact sheet/make prints and let everybody know how it turns out.

Oh, and I'll probably fill the tank with water to see its capacity and work from there 😉

 

[venchka]

Good luck! Show us the photos!

 

[kully]

It's all fun venchka.

As a "newb" I prefer an empirical answer and then the idiosyncrasies as a dessert.

 

[venchka]

Aye. My Idios were showing, hey?

 

[ElectroWNED]

ugh...

I messed with the plastic reel for like 30 minutes before I gave up. Once outside, I realized you have to lock the size in by reaming on the two pieces :|

I guess I just paid a $3.99 lesson... Went and got a 400 speed roll to try again Monday