Lilserenity
Well-known
Hiya,
I've been having a think as well as some inspiration. Just been looking at some books, local photos and the likes and been thinking, "I could do that!" and to a large extent I do but as someone who is really keen on landscape photography, the best light is often around dawn and the evening. When you're shooting with Velvia 50 or just about any chrome -- it's no good hand holding it. So I need an oxymoron for my Leica M2, a tripod
I do have one but it's naff and as the tripod mount on a Leica is lop-sided my tripod just well can't support the M2.
I need a sturdy tripod, lightweight if possible and reasonably priced. I don't have a massive budget but try me. I don't mind second hand if you want to suggest discontinued models.
I don't aim on using the tripod a lot with my M2 as I personally can't stand them really but it's a necessary evil if I'm to accomplish what I want to do with my M2 at the golden hours of the day.
Thanks,
Vicky
I've been having a think as well as some inspiration. Just been looking at some books, local photos and the likes and been thinking, "I could do that!" and to a large extent I do but as someone who is really keen on landscape photography, the best light is often around dawn and the evening. When you're shooting with Velvia 50 or just about any chrome -- it's no good hand holding it. So I need an oxymoron for my Leica M2, a tripod
I do have one but it's naff and as the tripod mount on a Leica is lop-sided my tripod just well can't support the M2.
I need a sturdy tripod, lightweight if possible and reasonably priced. I don't have a massive budget but try me. I don't mind second hand if you want to suggest discontinued models.
I don't aim on using the tripod a lot with my M2 as I personally can't stand them really but it's a necessary evil if I'm to accomplish what I want to do with my M2 at the golden hours of the day.
Thanks,
Vicky
ferider
Veteran
No Oxymoron, Vicky.
The most important thing is that you get a baseplate to center the camera, like the one below from RRS, or use a grip (Like GMP or Leica), which also makes the use of larger lenses useful. Then you can use any head/tripod combo that fits your budget and your backpack. This one is an older Gitzo tripod:
And this a photo shot with it, with M6 and 35 Ultron:
Cheers,
Roland.
The most important thing is that you get a baseplate to center the camera, like the one below from RRS, or use a grip (Like GMP or Leica), which also makes the use of larger lenses useful. Then you can use any head/tripod combo that fits your budget and your backpack. This one is an older Gitzo tripod:
And this a photo shot with it, with M6 and 35 Ultron:
Cheers,
Roland.
mr_phillip
Well-known
I've got a Manfrotto 190XPROB which I like a lot, although I rarely put my rangefinders on it. On the occasions that I tripod mount my RFs I tend to use a smaller and lighter Velbon Ultra Luxe i SF with a Manfrotto 484RC2 head. The 190XPROB is certainly sturdier than the Velbon, but the latter's steady enough and scores on size and weight.
b.espahbod
Optophile
gitzo 6x carbon travelers are light, small and sturdy
rickp
Well-known
vicky
this is the GMP grip which roland mentioned in his post -
makes the camera easier to handle (especially vertically), and offers a centered tripod mounting location.
you might also take a look at a POD (link here: http://www.thepod.ca/blue pod page.html) it's like a bean bag with mounting screw, and is a great tripod substitute for low angles, wet grass or sand, etc. the blue one has an off-center screw which works for the leica m2 and others.
good luck
rick
this is the GMP grip which roland mentioned in his post -
makes the camera easier to handle (especially vertically), and offers a centered tripod mounting location.
you might also take a look at a POD (link here: http://www.thepod.ca/blue pod page.html) it's like a bean bag with mounting screw, and is a great tripod substitute for low angles, wet grass or sand, etc. the blue one has an off-center screw which works for the leica m2 and others.
good luck
rick
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Hi Vicky,
I understand you do a lot of hiking and therefor need a lightweight tripod. But, lightweights are less stable, due to being lightweight
A trick is to attach a small chain with a climbing hook to the center of the tripod's legs and suspend your bag from that. The weight of the bag will help stabilize a lightweight tripod. Thus, no need to carry a heavier tripod and have the bag as a dead weight on your shoulder as well.
Hope I'm making myself clear here, if not let me know and I'll arrange for a shot to show the idea!
I understand you do a lot of hiking and therefor need a lightweight tripod. But, lightweights are less stable, due to being lightweight
A trick is to attach a small chain with a climbing hook to the center of the tripod's legs and suspend your bag from that. The weight of the bag will help stabilize a lightweight tripod. Thus, no need to carry a heavier tripod and have the bag as a dead weight on your shoulder as well.
Hope I'm making myself clear here, if not let me know and I'll arrange for a shot to show the idea!
Jason Sprenger
Well-known
I second Roland on centering the tripod socket under the center of the lens. With an M2, I use the grip from Photo Equip.
My F-5Xb bag has a Manfrotto table-top tripod and cable release in it, which is worlds better than nothing and goes wherever I go.
For a proper tripod, I've used my Velbon 540 as I do with my SLR gear. Being carbon fiber, it's light without being delicate, and quick to setup. Not cheap but generally less expensive than other CF tripods. I've used it with all my gear up to a 4x5 Graphic. My heavier metal tripods started gathering dust after I got this one.
My F-5Xb bag has a Manfrotto table-top tripod and cable release in it, which is worlds better than nothing and goes wherever I go.
For a proper tripod, I've used my Velbon 540 as I do with my SLR gear. Being carbon fiber, it's light without being delicate, and quick to setup. Not cheap but generally less expensive than other CF tripods. I've used it with all my gear up to a 4x5 Graphic. My heavier metal tripods started gathering dust after I got this one.
Last edited:
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I've avoided the lightweight carbon fiber models, partly on account of their cost--but not entirely. There was an article in LFI a couple years ago, comparing tripods for their resistance to vibration. I drew the following conclusions from the specs of the models they tested, vs. their results. If two tripods of equal size are compared, but one is lightweight and the other is heavy, then the heavier one will exhibit the least vibration. So in that case the carbon fiber model loses. But between two tripods of equal weight, if one of them is a carbon fiber and the other is not (aluminum, probably) then the carbon fiber one will be the better of the two. Again, that's all based on the models they tested.
I use three tripods. Two of them are candidates for the Leica M. One is the Bogen/Manfrotto 3001, an aluminum model, fairly light for its size, but nothing to go on a hike with. The other is a more compact but very solid Gitzo. I am not sure of the model, but it measures 15.5 inches collapsed and is an older model, of metal. It seems fairly heavy for its size, but I can hold it and walk with it if I need to. Either of these is solid enough for a Leica M. I generally use a Bogen/Manfrotto ball head, or a compact Bogen head with separate elevation and tilt controls.
I would be afraid to use a very lightweight carbon fiber, as I could see it not being a solid support, and might let an expensive camera blow over in the wind. A very light tripod, to me, makes as much sense as a styrofoam ballast for a sailboat.
I use three tripods. Two of them are candidates for the Leica M. One is the Bogen/Manfrotto 3001, an aluminum model, fairly light for its size, but nothing to go on a hike with. The other is a more compact but very solid Gitzo. I am not sure of the model, but it measures 15.5 inches collapsed and is an older model, of metal. It seems fairly heavy for its size, but I can hold it and walk with it if I need to. Either of these is solid enough for a Leica M. I generally use a Bogen/Manfrotto ball head, or a compact Bogen head with separate elevation and tilt controls.
I would be afraid to use a very lightweight carbon fiber, as I could see it not being a solid support, and might let an expensive camera blow over in the wind. A very light tripod, to me, makes as much sense as a styrofoam ballast for a sailboat.
amateriat
We're all light!
I have three camera supports: a tripod (Manfrotto 3205G, with 3265 pistol-brip head), a monopod (Manfrotto 3216, with ProBall 308RC ball head), and a tiny Glottos table tripod. I bought all three toward the tail-end of my AF SLR days, so the first two had to be heavy-duty enough to handle a Minolta 9xi with an 80-200 f/2.8 APO zoom, while the Glottos spent most of its time semi-permanently attached to the bottom of the Konica Hexar Autofocus I also had at the time.
One interesting rule of tripods I follow comes from the late Herbert Keppler, and I've followed it religiously for years: the lighter the camera, the heavier the tripod. You might get away with a relatively heavy camera on a light tripod (assuming the latter can reliably support the former, of course), but a flyweight camera on the same tripod is courting disaster without additional ballast of some kind.
One thing you might want to check on your M2 is the diameter of the tripod socket: mine is the larger diameter, meaning it requires an adapter to work with contemporary tripod screws. I don't know if Leica changed this over the production cycle of the M2). Yes, ideally, the tripod screw should be centered, but it's not necessarily fatal to "assume" the normal offset position, at least from my perspective.
Of course, both my Hexar RFs work fine with all my supports, as do my Olympus OM-2n, Contax Tvs, and even my Holga 135. Can't say I'm in that big a hurry to refit the M2, which just begs to be in the hand...
- Barrett
One interesting rule of tripods I follow comes from the late Herbert Keppler, and I've followed it religiously for years: the lighter the camera, the heavier the tripod. You might get away with a relatively heavy camera on a light tripod (assuming the latter can reliably support the former, of course), but a flyweight camera on the same tripod is courting disaster without additional ballast of some kind.
One thing you might want to check on your M2 is the diameter of the tripod socket: mine is the larger diameter, meaning it requires an adapter to work with contemporary tripod screws. I don't know if Leica changed this over the production cycle of the M2). Yes, ideally, the tripod screw should be centered, but it's not necessarily fatal to "assume" the normal offset position, at least from my perspective.
Of course, both my Hexar RFs work fine with all my supports, as do my Olympus OM-2n, Contax Tvs, and even my Holga 135. Can't say I'm in that big a hurry to refit the M2, which just begs to be in the hand...
- Barrett
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Around 1973 I bought, from the Dixon's shop in Brighton, a simple tripod with a ball and socket head. Says "KESTREL Made in Germany". Still use it. Legs are flat steel tubing, so it isn't exactly light -- but I imagine it could be used to whack un-nice people over the head with.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Thank you for your help everybody there's a lot of suggestions to consider here.
The first thing, Barrett, my M2 definitely has the smaller tripod socket as my current tripod attaches fine to it and that's definitely the smaller size (3/8"?) -- so that's some good news.
Secondly, I wasn't aware of a device to centre the tripod socket but that does sound like a good idea although I'm not sure I can afford that right away (although it may well turn out essential in the end) but I did look it up (http://www.photoequip.net/) and $129 isn't too bad, I had been considering a grip anyway as I used an M8.2 with the Leica grip in London a month or two ago and I could see occassions where I'd like that extra purchase on the body too.
Now, weight. 10st 5lbs last time I... oh the tripod, not me As I hinted, lightweight isn't the be all end all; when I go hiking, properly like away for the night etc., it is unlikely I'll take a tripod for the simple fact that when I am walking, the walking and observing the landscape is my foremost priority, second is finding a pub for lunch and third is taking some pictures... But I digress The main use for this tripod is when I go out for the day specifically to take photos and this usually means I am carrying less weight so I can hapilly carry a little more on the tripod side of things. Also 98% of the time the M2 will be in my hands, the tripod is just for around dawn and sunset, the rest of the time I'll hand hold.
CLE-RF: I know exactly what you mean, that's a great idea, that would certainly keep the tripod ultra steady and something I shall have to try out.
The main point of this is that I want to try and make a go of selling some prints and I do think (as well as some good critique I have received too in the past few months, not all of it glowing...) that it's something I'm well placed to succeed at. The M2 has improved my photography imeasurably (I think anyway) but due to the tripod situation, I have little to no shots that I have taken at the golden hours of the day which people really like.
I'm going to have to sit down probably after work now (running out of time to do it this morning!) and run through these options.
Budget wise, I probably have in the region of £200.
Vicky
The first thing, Barrett, my M2 definitely has the smaller tripod socket as my current tripod attaches fine to it and that's definitely the smaller size (3/8"?) -- so that's some good news.
Secondly, I wasn't aware of a device to centre the tripod socket but that does sound like a good idea although I'm not sure I can afford that right away (although it may well turn out essential in the end) but I did look it up (http://www.photoequip.net/) and $129 isn't too bad, I had been considering a grip anyway as I used an M8.2 with the Leica grip in London a month or two ago and I could see occassions where I'd like that extra purchase on the body too.
Now, weight. 10st 5lbs last time I... oh the tripod, not me
As I hinted, lightweight isn't the be all end all; when I go hiking, properly like away for the night etc., it is unlikely I'll take a tripod for the simple fact that when I am walking, the walking and observing the landscape is my foremost priority, second is finding a pub for lunch and third is taking some pictures... But I digress The main use for this tripod is when I go out for the day specifically to take photos and this usually means I am carrying less weight so I can hapilly carry a little more on the tripod side of things. Also 98% of the time the M2 will be in my hands, the tripod is just for around dawn and sunset, the rest of the time I'll hand hold.CLE-RF: I know exactly what you mean, that's a great idea, that would certainly keep the tripod ultra steady and something I shall have to try out.
The main point of this is that I want to try and make a go of selling some prints and I do think (as well as some good critique I have received too in the past few months, not all of it glowing...) that it's something I'm well placed to succeed at. The M2 has improved my photography imeasurably (I think anyway) but due to the tripod situation, I have little to no shots that I have taken at the golden hours of the day which people really like.
I'm going to have to sit down probably after work now (running out of time to do it this morning!) and run through these options.
Budget wise, I probably have in the region of £200.
Vicky
RichC
Well-known
Vicky - I recommend a Redsnapper tripod. Redsnapper is a UK company that sells high-quality Chinese tripods: http://www.aldine.co.uk/redsnapper/redsnapper-quality-tripods.html. (I have no connection with Redsnapper.)
I wrote a review for the Brighton & Hove Camera Club Newsletter - it's a bit lengthy but I'll reproduce it in full as it's all quite useful info if anyone's thinking about buying Chinese equipment.
I bought the aluminium alloy Redsnapper tripod, but if you'll be out and about, the tripod and head - light by pro standards - weighs 2.5 kg. Redsnapper's equivalent carbon fibre tripod is £140 and saves 0.3 kg. Hoiking 2-2.5 kg is no fun, but if you're after a decent tripod and head that will do all you ask of it, I wouldn't get anything less sturdy unless you're prepared to compromise in exchange for portability - a lighter tripod than either of the Redsnappers will be less robust and more prone to vibration, and smaller head than the Giottos I describe below will suffer from "photographer's droop" - you get you shot nicely lined up, tighten the head, and let go, only for the camera to creep downwards! :bang:
If you do want a light-weight, portable tripod, consider the Velbon Ultra Luxi L: it's only available with a pan head (I prefer ball heads) - that said, the head is attached with a standard 1/4 inch screw, so you can change it if you want. Costs about £80 online. I carried my Velbon whilst climbing Mt Etna, and it performed admirably. (Don't use it as a walking stick, 'cos I trashed it!)
Lastly, Confucius he say: a slightly wibbly tripod is always better than a solid one that never leaves the house because it's too heavy!
PS, Vicky: I'll plug BHCC (http://www.bhcc-online.org) - ever thought of joining: there are several members who live in Worthing? Being based in Brighton, it's not your typical fusty camera club comprising two pipe-smoking men in tweed jackets poring interminably over B&W shots of the Lake District! Instead, there are well over 100 members of all ages, sexes and occupations into every type of photography imaginable. We meet on Tuesdays between September and May.
__________________________________________________
Buying a Chinese tripod and ballhead - a review
I've got a small, light-weight Velbon Maxi tripod for travelling, but wanted something more substantial for general use.
European equipment of the quality I'd like is expensive (in the ballpark of £350), but I noticed Chinese alternatives with seemingly identical specifications on eBay for a quarter of the price, and wondered if they were any good. I Googled to find out more info on Asian camera gear: as we all know, stuff from China is a bit of a curate’s egg – some is superb quality, some is horrendous; and you can’t always tell by appearances.
So, what did I find out? There are a number of Chinese factories that are manufacturing tripods and accessories, many of which look very similar to respected models from Western companies such as Gitzo, Arca-Swiss and Kirk. There’s grumbling on the Internet about ethics, but as these products aren’t counterfeit, the West can’t whine if Communist China hoists us by our own capitalist petards! Yilee and Weifeng seem to be the main manufacturers, selling products directly under the brand names Benro and Induro (Yilee) and Fancier (Weifeng), and possibly to other companies for rebranding. These three brands, especially Benro, are popular throughout Asia, and are now being exported worldwide; the companies are gaining a reputation for quality at keen prices. There are also smaller companies making similar products, such as Shenzhen Yongnuo (Yong Nuo and Gitai brands), and these products are up to 50% cheaper than the Benro, Induro and Fancier equivalents, and are readily available on eBay from sellers often based in Hong Kong. However, although the latter three brands are generally liked, the quality of the products from the lesser-known companies such as Gitai can be very poor.
Unpicking who makes which brand is almost impossible, as is ascertaining quality (most look identical, and externally seem well made): so, unless you want to take a chance or trust a recommendation (I recommend Redsnapper – see later), Fancier, Induro and Benro are the brands to choose for reliable, consistent manufacture; their products are discussed and reviewed reasonably well on the web.
The products aren’t exact copies, and the aim (at least of the better companies) seems to be to match the specifications of their Western counterparts whilst minimising costs (simplified mechanics, lower-specification materials). Tripods from the major Chinese companies such as Benro or Fancier don’t seem quite as sophisticated or as well finished as their more expensive Western brethren, but perform just as well in stability and vibration tests. Here’s a review of a tripod taken on an Antarctica expedition, and another.
My own reviews follow.
Redsnapper A-283 tripod
I decided to buy a tripod with similar specifications to the Gitzo GT2331 – a 2 kg aluminium model at the lighter end of the professional tripod spectrum. My camera is small (a Leica M8), my longest lens is short (135 mm) and feather-like, and I rarely photograph on storm-lashed mountain peaks, so I don’t need a heavy, ultra-rigid tripod. I decided against carbon fibre, since the quarter-kilo weight saving is negligible, and, of more importance, tripods below 2 kg are noticeably less able to damp vibration, offsetting the slightly better structural rigidity and anti-vibration properties of carbon fibre. In short, I’d be paying twice as much for a tripod that wobbles more! (For proof, see LFI magazine, Jan. 2006.)
It was hard to find a suitable Chinese-made aluminium tripod in the UK (the Chinese prefer to export carbon fibre models, presumably because they’re trendy and sell better), so I asked for recommendations, and was pointed to Redsnapper, who are so confident of the quality of their products that they provide a 3 year guarantee. Redsnapper’s prices are ridiculously low, too.
On paper, the Redsnapper and Gitzo tripods compare very favourably, and have almost identical specifications – heights, weights, adjustable leg angles, etc. The biggest difference is that the Redsnapper tripod costs £50 whereas the Gitzo one costs £200!
I ordered Redsnapper’s A-283 tripod, and it arrived the next morning, as promised.
The Redsnapper tripod is impressive and very well designed. How Redsnapper makes a profit on these, I don’t know! It’s as solid as a rock, and seems as sturdy and vibration-resistant as the Manfrotto tripods I’ve tried (I can’t say how it compares with a Gitzo tripod since I’ve never used one). The build quality can’t be faulted: all the parts are precisely made, and there’s no skimping on materials – nearly every part is metal, the leg walls are a sturdy 1.5 mm thick, and the screws are all stainless steel. Quality control is exemplary, and I couldn’t find anything that wasn’t as it should be. There’s also lots of small but nice touches that again point to the quality of its design and manufacture: for example, all three legs have foam sleeves; and the hook on the bottom of the reversible central column is not only stainless steel but is held retracted by a spring (just like a Gitzo!). The tripod also came with accessories (which the Gitzo doesn’t, apart from a thin, skimpy bag): an alternative short central column, a toolkit for maintenance and a high-quality padded bag.
As I mentioned, this tripod is solid: there’s no play or wobble anywhere. In use, the legs fold out smoothly, and a mere quarter twist on the screw locks frees them, to allow the legs to extend smoothly. The Redsnapper has its own version of Gitzo’s Anti Leg Rotation Leg (ALR) System – which means that the legs don’t rotate when turning the twist locks, so both locks on each leg can be loosened simultaneously and both sections extended together, making the tripod very quick to open. A quarter turn on the locks clamps the legs in a vice-like grip. Pulling out the levers on the spider allows the legs to be spread at three different angles.
There is one minor gripe: the central column platform for the head has three grub screws to lock it solidly to the head, so the head cannot work loose. Unfortunately, if you twist the head when locked to the platform, the platform unscrews from the central screw! The solution is use thread-locking compound n this central screw.
In summary, I have no hesitation in recommending the Redsnapper A-283 to anyone looking for a decent tripod for general use, and I agree with Redsnapper’s description of it as a “professional tripod”. I cannot see what I’d gain by spending an extra £150 on the equivalent Gitzo.
Ye Yuer KS-0 ballhead
I’ll put my conclusion first: don’t buy this
I prefer ballheads, and decided that I needed a better head to go with my new tripod. Decent ballheads aren’t cheap, so again I decided on Chinese one. Most seem to be based on the Kirk BH series (which start at £250!). I could have bought a Redsnapper ballhead for £50, but, rated for a 10 kg load and consequently heavy, it’s overkill for my tiny Leica rangefinder. I also had another concern: Chinese tripods aimed at serious photographers seem to be generally acclaimed, but not so their ballheads. After searching the web, the general opinion seems to be that they’re OK but some are not well designed, and can suffer from manufacturing faults such as stiff action and unwanted play. The “Benro KB-2 Ball Mount Tear Down” thread in the Canon Digital Photography Forums describes these flaws in detail. Benro state specifically that they’ve taken onboard criticisms and have improved their ballheads (and also increased their prices considerably) – recent reviews do seem more favourable. And Redsnapper are so confident of their head that it has a 3 year guarantee.
I like how these Chinese Kirk-type ballheads work: the ball is set with two control knobs: one sets the friction, preventing the camera from flopping over when you let go; and the other locks the ball securely. The head rotates laterally on its base to allow panning, and a third knob locks the panning base.
Benro sells the B-0, which at half the weight of the Redsnapper head is perfect, but costs £90 in the UK. For that, or cheaper, I can buy a similar head from Benbo or Giottos with a proven track record. However, eBay has a plethora of Benro B-0 clones under various brand names, often using the KS-0 model designation, and costing between £25 and £40 including postage from China. I bought a Ye Yuer KS-0 for £24, including postage from Hong Kong. Its specifications seemed ideal, with a large 36 mm ball able to support 8 kg, and an Arca-Swiss-style quick release.
It came without instructions, but a quick search of the web informed me that the large knob is the tension control, and the smaller knob opposite is the ball lock.
It looks well made, with thick satin-black anodising. Unfortunately, although care has been taken over its appearance, the functional design is appalling – in short, it’s junk! The ball moves jerkily, and hits tight and loose spots as you rotate it; the functioning of the friction and ball-lock controls cannot be distinguished from each other, and the friction cannot be set as the controls are too sensitive – merely touching a control alters the friction, and moving the ball reduces the friction; the rubber non-slip pads on the quick release plate have ridges that are too high and thin, allowing the camera to twist slightly when moved; and the panning base has rough spots when rotated.
It was so poor that I couldn’t possibly sell it or give it away, so binned it! What a waste of money!
Giottos MH-1001 ballhead
Ballheads need to be well designed from an engineering standpoint. Unfortunately, it seems that some Chinese manufacturers are only interested in appearance, so buying a cheap unknown brand can be a mistake, as I found out: two ballheads may look identical but perform world’s apart. Everyone says buy the best head you can afford ... I should’ve listened!
I’ve now bought a replacement ballhead with a similar design and specifications: the Giottos MH-1001. It’s excellent value for £50, and performs flawlessly: the ball and the panning base both move smoothly, it locks up tight without any play, and the tension knob has a wide range of movement for fine control. I tried a few mid-range Manfrotto ballheads, but the Giottos felt more refined.
If buying a Redsnapper tripod, also consider one their heads (I haven’t tried one, but the company emphasises quality, so I’d expect it performs admirably).
I wrote a review for the Brighton & Hove Camera Club Newsletter - it's a bit lengthy but I'll reproduce it in full as it's all quite useful info if anyone's thinking about buying Chinese equipment.
I bought the aluminium alloy Redsnapper tripod, but if you'll be out and about, the tripod and head - light by pro standards - weighs 2.5 kg. Redsnapper's equivalent carbon fibre tripod is £140 and saves 0.3 kg. Hoiking 2-2.5 kg is no fun, but if you're after a decent tripod and head that will do all you ask of it, I wouldn't get anything less sturdy unless you're prepared to compromise in exchange for portability - a lighter tripod than either of the Redsnappers will be less robust and more prone to vibration, and smaller head than the Giottos I describe below will suffer from "photographer's droop" - you get you shot nicely lined up, tighten the head, and let go, only for the camera to creep downwards! :bang:
If you do want a light-weight, portable tripod, consider the Velbon Ultra Luxi L: it's only available with a pan head (I prefer ball heads) - that said, the head is attached with a standard 1/4 inch screw, so you can change it if you want. Costs about £80 online. I carried my Velbon whilst climbing Mt Etna, and it performed admirably. (Don't use it as a walking stick, 'cos I trashed it!
)Lastly, Confucius he say: a slightly wibbly tripod is always better than a solid one that never leaves the house because it's too heavy!
PS, Vicky: I'll plug BHCC (http://www.bhcc-online.org) - ever thought of joining: there are several members who live in Worthing? Being based in Brighton, it's not your typical fusty camera club comprising two pipe-smoking men in tweed jackets poring interminably over B&W shots of the Lake District! Instead, there are well over 100 members of all ages, sexes and occupations into every type of photography imaginable. We meet on Tuesdays between September and May.
__________________________________________________
Buying a Chinese tripod and ballhead - a review
I've got a small, light-weight Velbon Maxi tripod for travelling, but wanted something more substantial for general use.
European equipment of the quality I'd like is expensive (in the ballpark of £350), but I noticed Chinese alternatives with seemingly identical specifications on eBay for a quarter of the price, and wondered if they were any good. I Googled to find out more info on Asian camera gear: as we all know, stuff from China is a bit of a curate’s egg – some is superb quality, some is horrendous; and you can’t always tell by appearances.
So, what did I find out? There are a number of Chinese factories that are manufacturing tripods and accessories, many of which look very similar to respected models from Western companies such as Gitzo, Arca-Swiss and Kirk. There’s grumbling on the Internet about ethics, but as these products aren’t counterfeit, the West can’t whine if Communist China hoists us by our own capitalist petards! Yilee and Weifeng seem to be the main manufacturers, selling products directly under the brand names Benro and Induro (Yilee) and Fancier (Weifeng), and possibly to other companies for rebranding. These three brands, especially Benro, are popular throughout Asia, and are now being exported worldwide; the companies are gaining a reputation for quality at keen prices. There are also smaller companies making similar products, such as Shenzhen Yongnuo (Yong Nuo and Gitai brands), and these products are up to 50% cheaper than the Benro, Induro and Fancier equivalents, and are readily available on eBay from sellers often based in Hong Kong. However, although the latter three brands are generally liked, the quality of the products from the lesser-known companies such as Gitai can be very poor.
Unpicking who makes which brand is almost impossible, as is ascertaining quality (most look identical, and externally seem well made): so, unless you want to take a chance or trust a recommendation (I recommend Redsnapper – see later), Fancier, Induro and Benro are the brands to choose for reliable, consistent manufacture; their products are discussed and reviewed reasonably well on the web.
The products aren’t exact copies, and the aim (at least of the better companies) seems to be to match the specifications of their Western counterparts whilst minimising costs (simplified mechanics, lower-specification materials). Tripods from the major Chinese companies such as Benro or Fancier don’t seem quite as sophisticated or as well finished as their more expensive Western brethren, but perform just as well in stability and vibration tests. Here’s a review of a tripod taken on an Antarctica expedition, and another.
My own reviews follow.
Redsnapper A-283 tripod
I decided to buy a tripod with similar specifications to the Gitzo GT2331 – a 2 kg aluminium model at the lighter end of the professional tripod spectrum. My camera is small (a Leica M8), my longest lens is short (135 mm) and feather-like, and I rarely photograph on storm-lashed mountain peaks, so I don’t need a heavy, ultra-rigid tripod. I decided against carbon fibre, since the quarter-kilo weight saving is negligible, and, of more importance, tripods below 2 kg are noticeably less able to damp vibration, offsetting the slightly better structural rigidity and anti-vibration properties of carbon fibre. In short, I’d be paying twice as much for a tripod that wobbles more! (For proof, see LFI magazine, Jan. 2006.)
It was hard to find a suitable Chinese-made aluminium tripod in the UK (the Chinese prefer to export carbon fibre models, presumably because they’re trendy and sell better), so I asked for recommendations, and was pointed to Redsnapper, who are so confident of the quality of their products that they provide a 3 year guarantee. Redsnapper’s prices are ridiculously low, too.
On paper, the Redsnapper and Gitzo tripods compare very favourably, and have almost identical specifications – heights, weights, adjustable leg angles, etc. The biggest difference is that the Redsnapper tripod costs £50 whereas the Gitzo one costs £200!
I ordered Redsnapper’s A-283 tripod, and it arrived the next morning, as promised.
The Redsnapper tripod is impressive and very well designed. How Redsnapper makes a profit on these, I don’t know! It’s as solid as a rock, and seems as sturdy and vibration-resistant as the Manfrotto tripods I’ve tried (I can’t say how it compares with a Gitzo tripod since I’ve never used one). The build quality can’t be faulted: all the parts are precisely made, and there’s no skimping on materials – nearly every part is metal, the leg walls are a sturdy 1.5 mm thick, and the screws are all stainless steel. Quality control is exemplary, and I couldn’t find anything that wasn’t as it should be. There’s also lots of small but nice touches that again point to the quality of its design and manufacture: for example, all three legs have foam sleeves; and the hook on the bottom of the reversible central column is not only stainless steel but is held retracted by a spring (just like a Gitzo!). The tripod also came with accessories (which the Gitzo doesn’t, apart from a thin, skimpy bag): an alternative short central column, a toolkit for maintenance and a high-quality padded bag.
As I mentioned, this tripod is solid: there’s no play or wobble anywhere. In use, the legs fold out smoothly, and a mere quarter twist on the screw locks frees them, to allow the legs to extend smoothly. The Redsnapper has its own version of Gitzo’s Anti Leg Rotation Leg (ALR) System – which means that the legs don’t rotate when turning the twist locks, so both locks on each leg can be loosened simultaneously and both sections extended together, making the tripod very quick to open. A quarter turn on the locks clamps the legs in a vice-like grip. Pulling out the levers on the spider allows the legs to be spread at three different angles.
There is one minor gripe: the central column platform for the head has three grub screws to lock it solidly to the head, so the head cannot work loose. Unfortunately, if you twist the head when locked to the platform, the platform unscrews from the central screw! The solution is use thread-locking compound n this central screw.
In summary, I have no hesitation in recommending the Redsnapper A-283 to anyone looking for a decent tripod for general use, and I agree with Redsnapper’s description of it as a “professional tripod”. I cannot see what I’d gain by spending an extra £150 on the equivalent Gitzo.
Ye Yuer KS-0 ballhead
I’ll put my conclusion first: don’t buy this
I prefer ballheads, and decided that I needed a better head to go with my new tripod. Decent ballheads aren’t cheap, so again I decided on Chinese one. Most seem to be based on the Kirk BH series (which start at £250!). I could have bought a Redsnapper ballhead for £50, but, rated for a 10 kg load and consequently heavy, it’s overkill for my tiny Leica rangefinder. I also had another concern: Chinese tripods aimed at serious photographers seem to be generally acclaimed, but not so their ballheads. After searching the web, the general opinion seems to be that they’re OK but some are not well designed, and can suffer from manufacturing faults such as stiff action and unwanted play. The “Benro KB-2 Ball Mount Tear Down” thread in the Canon Digital Photography Forums describes these flaws in detail. Benro state specifically that they’ve taken onboard criticisms and have improved their ballheads (and also increased their prices considerably) – recent reviews do seem more favourable. And Redsnapper are so confident of their head that it has a 3 year guarantee.
I like how these Chinese Kirk-type ballheads work: the ball is set with two control knobs: one sets the friction, preventing the camera from flopping over when you let go; and the other locks the ball securely. The head rotates laterally on its base to allow panning, and a third knob locks the panning base.
Benro sells the B-0, which at half the weight of the Redsnapper head is perfect, but costs £90 in the UK. For that, or cheaper, I can buy a similar head from Benbo or Giottos with a proven track record. However, eBay has a plethora of Benro B-0 clones under various brand names, often using the KS-0 model designation, and costing between £25 and £40 including postage from China. I bought a Ye Yuer KS-0 for £24, including postage from Hong Kong. Its specifications seemed ideal, with a large 36 mm ball able to support 8 kg, and an Arca-Swiss-style quick release.
It came without instructions, but a quick search of the web informed me that the large knob is the tension control, and the smaller knob opposite is the ball lock.
It looks well made, with thick satin-black anodising. Unfortunately, although care has been taken over its appearance, the functional design is appalling – in short, it’s junk! The ball moves jerkily, and hits tight and loose spots as you rotate it; the functioning of the friction and ball-lock controls cannot be distinguished from each other, and the friction cannot be set as the controls are too sensitive – merely touching a control alters the friction, and moving the ball reduces the friction; the rubber non-slip pads on the quick release plate have ridges that are too high and thin, allowing the camera to twist slightly when moved; and the panning base has rough spots when rotated.
It was so poor that I couldn’t possibly sell it or give it away, so binned it! What a waste of money!
Giottos MH-1001 ballhead
Ballheads need to be well designed from an engineering standpoint. Unfortunately, it seems that some Chinese manufacturers are only interested in appearance, so buying a cheap unknown brand can be a mistake, as I found out: two ballheads may look identical but perform world’s apart. Everyone says buy the best head you can afford ... I should’ve listened!
I’ve now bought a replacement ballhead with a similar design and specifications: the Giottos MH-1001. It’s excellent value for £50, and performs flawlessly: the ball and the panning base both move smoothly, it locks up tight without any play, and the tension knob has a wide range of movement for fine control. I tried a few mid-range Manfrotto ballheads, but the Giottos felt more refined.
If buying a Redsnapper tripod, also consider one their heads (I haven’t tried one, but the company emphasises quality, so I’d expect it performs admirably).
Last edited:
Lilserenity
Well-known
Thanks Rich, that is so helpful, I mean truly - THANK YOU!
I will seriously have to give these RedSnapper's a look at, especially with a 3 year warranty.
I shan't be galavanting off to Antarctica in a hurry so I think Sussex should treat any tripod of mine well, though the boot of my humble '88 Escort might give it a bit of a trip once in a while
One thing is for sure, I'll put the EOS 3 on eBay this weekend with its 50mm lens, and be ordering a tripod -- not sure which yet but I'll figure it out within a week or so, as I want to get cracking. I've got two rolls of original RVP left to shoot, and then on to some nice juicy new RVP50.
As for the BHCC plug, I might just have to look into that I am very keen so I might just have to look into you guys! I currently flit about with SussexPhoto (www.SussexPhoto.com) which is a lot of fun and a great bunch but I am always up for meeting others and shooting.
Presumably after your glowing review, the RedSnapper is still going strong for you? How long have you had it now, and are there any other things you may point out?
At £49 my "It's too good to be true" alarm is ringing but it does sound pretty good, especially with the 3 year warranty.
That said, I have seen friends' Manfrotto tripods bust (decent ones too) and my first tripod fell to bits within about 2 mins of me using it but that was a few years ago. That was the biggest heap of crap I have ever bought for sure
Also, heads up, it appears Warehouse Express in the UK has some special offers on their tripods at the moment, might be worth looking if others are after tripods and mounts.
Thanks.
Vicky
I will seriously have to give these RedSnapper's a look at, especially with a 3 year warranty.
I shan't be galavanting off to Antarctica in a hurry so I think Sussex should treat any tripod of mine well, though the boot of my humble '88 Escort might give it a bit of a trip once in a while
One thing is for sure, I'll put the EOS 3 on eBay this weekend with its 50mm lens, and be ordering a tripod -- not sure which yet but I'll figure it out within a week or so, as I want to get cracking. I've got two rolls of original RVP left to shoot, and then on to some nice juicy new RVP50.
As for the BHCC plug, I might just have to look into that
I am very keen so I might just have to look into you guys! I currently flit about with SussexPhoto (www.SussexPhoto.com) which is a lot of fun and a great bunch but I am always up for meeting others and shooting.Presumably after your glowing review, the RedSnapper is still going strong for you? How long have you had it now, and are there any other things you may point out?
At £49 my "It's too good to be true" alarm is ringing but it does sound pretty good, especially with the 3 year warranty.
That said, I have seen friends' Manfrotto tripods bust (decent ones too) and my first tripod fell to bits within about 2 mins of me using it but that was a few years ago. That was the biggest heap of crap I have ever bought for sure
Also, heads up, it appears Warehouse Express in the UK has some special offers on their tripods at the moment, might be worth looking if others are after tripods and mounts.
Thanks.
Vicky
venchka
Veteran
Add mass
Add mass
Before giving up on your present tripod, try hanging your camera bag or water bottles or anything from the tripod. Temporary mass added to the tripod is a good thing. Primary benefit: lowering the center of gravity. I own a Gitzo CF tripod and put big cameras on it. I hang my camera bag or view camera backpack from the tripod. Instant increase in stability. Try it. It might work.
If not, the Leitz Tiltall tripod is the only tripod approved for Leica cameras.
Add mass
Before giving up on your present tripod, try hanging your camera bag or water bottles or anything from the tripod. Temporary mass added to the tripod is a good thing. Primary benefit: lowering the center of gravity. I own a Gitzo CF tripod and put big cameras on it. I hang my camera bag or view camera backpack from the tripod. Instant increase in stability. Try it. It might work.
If not, the Leitz Tiltall tripod is the only tripod approved for Leica cameras.
RichC
Well-known
It's still going strong - I've had it about 3 months or so now, and I honestly can't see it breaking! If you google "redsnapper tripod" (don't forget "tripod" unless you're keen on fish! <grin>), you'll find plenty of glowing testimonials. Redsnapper's not that well known as the company doesn't promote itself that hard...
PS: as mentioned on the BHCC website (http://www.bhcc-online.org/news.html - look under the heading "News for BHCC members", about halfway down), several members meet at a pub not far from Hove station during summer, and I'm going next Tues, and would be happy to bring along the tripod...
Last edited:
Nokton48
Veteran
The original Leitz Tiltall is great with M-Leicas, and they're not too expensive. Under $100 for a nice one. I bought a knockoff (Star-D) for $30 at a local camera show, I use it quite a bit. You can even buy replacement parts for it from Plume (the softbox people) in Colorado.
Last edited:
ethics_gradient
Well-known
For something as small as rangefinder, I don't think you can go wrong with a Velbon Ultra Maxi-f. I used one with a prosumer digital, and later a Rebel XT DSLR when I was first getting in to photography. It's light (.99kg), extends to 152cm with the center column, and is only about 36cm long when folded up. I paid less than $100 for one brand new at a brick and mortar store 5 years ago, would still have it today if I hadn't lost it.
There's on on eBay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/Velbon-ULTRA-MA...QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported
There's on on eBay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/Velbon-ULTRA-MA...QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported
venchka
Veteran
Caution on Tiltall tripods: Don't buy the new knock off copies from China. They are crap.
Buy the real thing made in New Jersey. Don't pay extra for the Leitz name. Same tripod with the Leitz name tacked on.
ps: You really do have a camera needing minimum tripod. Very few cameras are as light or as motion free on a tripod. You do have a good cable release?
Buy the real thing made in New Jersey. Don't pay extra for the Leitz name. Same tripod with the Leitz name tacked on.
ps: You really do have a camera needing minimum tripod. Very few cameras are as light or as motion free on a tripod. You do have a good cable release?
Lilserenity
Well-known
Thanks for the heads up, I'm not rushing into this, today I'm going to try and run through the suggestions and try and get some perspective on what will suit me best between all the variables!
I have a good cable release, 3ft long one. Otherwise I might as well kick the tripod feet when firing the M2's shutter without it
ethics_gradient said:
Consider it added to my list to look into. I'm in currently soggy England so I won't be buying from eBay US but I'll look out this side of the pond for sure.
Thanks everyone!
I didn't expect such a great response!Lilserenity
Well-known
That sounds good, Tuesday is usually pub quiz night down here but I'm sure I can give that a miss this week. Also near Hove station is good, staggering distance from both pub to station, and station to home
I won't be buying the tripod for at least a week or so but hope to have something in a fortnight's time.
I'll look up the details on the website in a bit!
Thanks,
Vicky