airport scanners and film

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blacknoise

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Hi there,

I'll be heading off to Prague (from the UK) in a couple of weeks and I'll be shooting lots of film out there. I was a bit worried about the film being fogged by the airport scanners. I am going to take the film in my hand luggage and will be using mostly Ilford FP4+, Fuji Pro 400H, Pro 160s and maybe some Sensia 100 to cross process. Would this film be ok going through the scanner? It'll be unexposed going.

Thanks

Rob
 
blacknoise said:
I am going to take the film in my hand luggage and will be using mostly Ilford FP4+, Fuji Pro 400H, Pro 160s and maybe some Sensia 100 to cross process. Would this film be ok going through the scanner? It'll be unexposed going.
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X-rays damage film. Always.

The question is only 'how much'? Generally, airport scanners of the sort used for carry-on luggage do not degrade film enough to cause visible damage. Faster films are more susceptible to x-rays than slower films, and the damage is cumulative - multiple trips will cause more damage than one trip through the scanners.

Exposed or unexposed film makes no difference, both are susceptible to damage. Processed film (film that has been developed) is no longer susceptible to damage by x-rays.

Do not put unprocessed film in checked luggage. If it is scanned, chances are very high that it will be utterly destroyed.

Otherwise, it should be fine.
 
I recently traveled from the US to Italy carrying a few rolls of 400 neopan and a dozen rolls of 100 across. For the first time in many trips I had my 400 film seriously fogged. The 100 was fine but the 400 was totaled. From closely examining the ruined film I would say it was a massive single exposure that did the damage. The damage was a single pattern extending the length of the film that was in the cassette. The pattern was a sine wave with distinct edges which leads me to also think it was a single exposure with the bag stopped in the x ray machine. I believe it happened at CDG / Parris. I observed the bag being examined at length in the carry on mchine.

Its a chance you take so be prepared in case you get fog.
 
Some people recommend lead bags but its my feeling that they increase the risk of damage. Security won't pass nthing unless they can see what's inside. That means it will stay in the x ray beam longer and if the machine is capable the beam energy will be increased untill the contents of the package is visible. This increases the risk of damage.
 
blacknoise said:
Hi there,

I'll be heading off to Prague (from the UK) in a couple of weeks and I'll be shooting lots of film out there. I was a bit worried about the film being fogged by the airport scanners. I am going to take the film in my hand luggage and will be using mostly Ilford FP4+, Fuji Pro 400H, Pro 160s and maybe some Sensia 100 to cross process. Would this film be ok going through the scanner? It'll be unexposed going.

Thanks

Rob
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Been to Prague ( and many other European places ) from UK lots of times, with a lot of film, and never had any problems, don't worry about it!- or another multi-page epic will follow here! 🙄
Dave.
 
Dave Wilkinson said:
Been to Prague ( and many other European places ) from UK lots of times, with a lot of film, and never had any problems, don't worry about it!- or another multi-page epic will follow here! 🙄
Dave.
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Agreed, my film went through carry-on scanners at six airports in Asia recently, with zero problems: 70 rolls of 135, mostly ISO 160 and 400, color and b&w. It was nice not having to take my shoes off, too.
 
Thanks for that Dave, it's very much apreciated, my mind is at rest now 🙂

EDIT: thank you too Novum, you slipped that one in while I was typing! 😛

Sorry for starting another thread on the subject, a mod should probably close this one now...

Rob
 
blacknoise said:
Thanks for that Dave, it's very much apreciated, my mind is at rest now 🙂

EDIT: thank you too Novum, you slipped that one in while I was typing! 😛

Sorry for starting another thread on the subject, a mod should probably close this one now...

Rob
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Rob, I did'nt mean to be rude! - but the subject does appear often! 😱 If it's your first visit, you're in for a photographic treat!....beers exellent too!
Dave.
 
x-ray said:
I recently traveled from the US to Italy carrying a few rolls of 400 neopan and a dozen rolls of 100 across. For the first time in many trips I had my 400 film seriously fogged. The 100 was fine but the 400 was totaled. From closely examining the ruined film I would say it was a massive single exposure that did the damage. The damage was a single pattern extending the length of the film that was in the cassette. The pattern was a sine wave with distinct edges which leads me to also think it was a single exposure with the bag stopped in the x ray machine. I believe it happened at CDG / Parris. I observed the bag being examined at length in the carry on mchine.

Its a chance you take so be prepared in case you get fog.
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This is VERY VERY interesting. It's the SECOND RELIABLE, highly credible report I've heard about film being damaged at CDG/Paris.

I travel all over Asia, Europe and Latin America sometimes with 100+ rolls of film; the film sometimes is x-rayed 20 times in a trip and there has never been any noticeable fog (ISO 400). Yet the Charles De Gaulle incidents are unsettling.
 
I only learned recently that you should not put film in checked baggage. For the past many years I have been doing this because I didn't want to carry the film with me on the plane.

This has been film of all sorts (120, 135, b&w, colour neg, pos, but not usually above iso 400). I've never seen any indication of fogging.

I no longer put film in checked luggage, and do plan on being more careful with it in the future.
 
Paddy C said:
I only learned recently that you should not put film in checked baggage. For the past many years I have been doing this because I didn't want to carry the film with me on the plane.
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I believe the machines used to scan checked luggage are usually not actually x-ray devices but employ another kind of much stronger scanning technology. I've seen some airports that warn they're strong enough to pose a threat to some electronic equipment.
 
For those who care, I present this link yet again:

http://www.i3a.org/advocacy/itip/

The I3A has done exhaustive studies on the effects of security scanning devices on film, and present their results here. This is basically the last word on the subject, arguing with the conclusions would not be very sensible.

Checked bags are subjected to scanning that will absolutely destroy unprocessed film if it hits it. Those who have escaped without damage have been lucky, that's all.

Putting undeveloped film in checked bags is asking to have it destroyed.

However, there are always those in threads like these who insist they've done it for years, have had no problems, and will continue to do so. I wish them the best of luck.
 
That's an informative link. I think it's worth highlighting that the joint ISA/TSA press release contained therein says this:

Black-and-white film, any speed, exposed or unexposed are NOT safe in EITHER checked or carry-on baggage; ALWAYS ask for hand inspection.
 
bmattock said:
For those who care, I present this link yet again:

http://www.i3a.org/advocacy/itip/Checked bags are subjected to scanning that will absolutely destroy unprocessed film if it hits it. Those who have escaped without damage have been lucky, that's all.

Putting undeveloped film in checked bags is asking to have it destroyed.
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I'm not going to argue with the I3A's findings on this matter. And, since learning that putting film in checked baggage is not a good idea, I will, as I mentioned, bring it in carry-on and ask for hand inspection if need be.

However, post 9/11, I would estimate that I have travelled by plane an average of 3-4 times a year (always with a supply of film). I have always had my film in checked baggage. On the way out it is unexposed/unprocessed, on the way back it has been exposed/unprocessed. Not once has it been fogged or in any other perceptible way damaged. I must be really lucky. 😉

Having said that, I'm going to look through my film and try to identify the rolls that have gone with me but not been used and may decide not to shoot them.
 
Paddy C said:
I'm not going to argue with the I3A's findings on this matter. And, since learning that putting film in checked baggage is not a good idea, I will, as I mentioned, bring it in carry-on and ask for hand inspection if need be.

However, post 9/11, I would estimate that I have travelled by plane an average of 3-4 times a year (always with a supply of film). I have always had my film in checked baggage. On the way out it is unexposed/unprocessed, on the way back it has been exposed/unprocessed. Not once has it been fogged or in any other perceptible way damaged. I must be really lucky. 😉

Having said that, I'm going to look through my film and try to identify the rolls that have gone with me but not been used and may decide not to shoot them.
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No offense intended. I merely meant that in some previous threads, we've had people encourage others to put their film in checked baggage because they themselves had done so with no problems. I suggested to those worthies that although they might well not have had problems, they a) were lucky and b) were not going to stand liable to make whole anyone who took their poor advice and ended up with damaged film, so why give it? I was just trying to short-circuit the usual panoply of wisenheimers who find it amusing to give bad advice.
 
bmattock said:
No offense intended.
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None taken. Given the amount of times I've done it (and sometimes through 4 baggage checks) without any problems, I find it hard to understand how they reached such a definitive stance on the issue.

But there's no way I'm going to take the risk again and I'm not suggesting anyone should.

I read a tip on a blog a month or so ago (which I cannot find at the moment). The writer puts tape on his exposed rolls to indicate that the film had been pushed along with a secret notation that would indicate to him if the film had really been pushed or not. For example, 400 film would have a note that it had been pushed two stops to 1600 with a little indicator that it had actually been shot at 400. He claimed that he could always get his film hand inspected without any hassle because of this system.
 
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