M9 Scuttle Butt

[Roger Hicks]

What did the good doctor tell you?

Nothing. I have ceased to be surprised at Leica's talent for secrecy. On the one hand, the impression I have gained is that the M9 is not imminent. On the other, we know that there will almost certainly be one.

The view inside Leica is that they really don't want a bigger camera, because their customers don't: as noted elsewhere, a lot of people find the M8 a bit podgy, and although the M5 has its devotees, it was never a great commercial success.

Changing lens register is of course meaningless, as it would then be a MUCH fatter camera and no longer recognizable as an M-series.

Incidentally, telecentric designs bring their own problems with colour correction, and besides, the point of the M-mount is backwards compatibility to 1932.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Efra1]

I must confess I'm on the list of pre-orders 🙂😱

Me too 😀

My dealer here in Spain tell 2 days ago that he will not recive more M8.2, I buy the last one past Monday.... Now I´m not shure bout that buy, but any way, I sell my M8, so I need a M Digital from here to December.

If M9 comes, the M8.2 will be a nice backup body (and expensive too)

 

[Olsen]

Nothing. I have ceased to be surprised at Leica's talent for secrecy. On the one hand, the impression I have gained is that the M9 is not imminent. On the other, we know that there will almost certainly be one.

The view inside Leica is that they really don't want a bigger camera, because their customers don't: as noted elsewhere, a lot of people find the M8 a bit podgy, and although the M5 has its devotees, it was never a great commercial success.

Changing lens register is of course meaningless, as it would then be a MUCH fatter camera and no longer recognizable as an M-series.

Incidentally, telecentric designs bring their own problems with colour correction, and besides, the point of the M-mount is backwards compatibility to 1932.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Cheers,

Roger

I tend to agree with you; I find it hard to believe that Leica will launch (= be ready in the shelves) a M9 already this winter. They will, most likely, be busy introducing the S2 for quite some time. This is a very important market introduction. In foreseeable future it is the S2 that is going to be Leica's most important 'professional' camera.

Most optimistically, I think, is that Leica will show us a M9 mock-up, with some general specifications the 9.9.09. As they did with the S2 introduction.

 

[jaapv]

Hey, it's a troll. Good times.

Back on topic, to the person who asked why the M9 would need to be bigger than the M8--physics suggests that when you increase the sensor size, you need to move the lens away from it at least a little in order to help compensate for the steep angle at which light is hitting the edges of the sensor.

Unlike film, a digital sensor has tiny lenses over its photosites, which pass less light as the angle of light hitting them increases. Leica developed some minor magic in the M8, apparently, to help with this issue, but unless they've made some sort of amazing breakthrough the M9 will certainly be at least slightly thicker than the M8... assuming it is indeed full frame.

You should indeed know better. Leica will never give up retrocompatability.

 

[climbing_vine]

You should indeed know better. Leica will never give up retrocompatability.

There are a number of way to handle a slight increase in the registration distance that, while they'd increase the price too much for any normal system, in the context of the $10k M9 might be simpler than spending another year or two or three to come up with a sensor that would handle the pitch increase alone. By which time Leica would probably be dead as a going concern, considering that without a compelling digital M their entire future rests on a camera that costs over 20 thousand dollars, being sold into a declining market ("medium format" digital).

Some of them have been considered in this thread.

 

[Roger Hicks]

There are a number of way to handle a slight increase in the registration distance ....

Can you name, say, three, that don't involve a significant loss of image quality? With 77 years of legacy lenses of wildly differing designs, symmetrical, triplet, telephoto, slightly retrofocus. soft focus?

Also, what are you calling 'slight'? I don't think anything under about 20-25% (call it 6mm, a quarter of an inch) would make the designers' job much easier; about 30-35% or 10mm would be nearer the mark, and who wants a Leica body that's even 5mm thicker?

As far as I can see, this is a double non-starter: oversize bodies and poor image quality.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Harry Lime]

You don't need a bigger body to use a faster processor. In this case the two issues are not related. I would also bet that Leica will continue to leave the files as untouched as possible, although I do hope that this time they allow the user to turn off all compression on the files. Personally I like the fact that the M8 produces RAW files with minimal processing. That way the user can decide how much noise reduction is applied etc.

On the Leica-camera forum there is a thread that shows a dissected M8.

The electronics and boards in the M8 look like something from the 1990's. It's a train wreck in there. But then again they had to rush it out of the door and a lot was made from off the shelf components.

There should be plenty of room in the M8 shell for a full frame sensor and the necessary electronics. Their biggest problem may be heat from such a big sensor, but then again the M9 probably won't be shooting 20MP @ 5 fps.

 

[johnny.moped]

you guys might want to look into this: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/93823-m9-does-phase-one-know-something.html

 

[benmacphoto]

http://us.leica-camera.com/news/events/by_date/1/6607.html

"Be among the first to see Leica's latest products and be among the first group to get hands on experience with our new equipment."

Just wanted to add to the speculation of an M9.

 

[yanidel]

I tend to agree with you; I find it hard to believe that Leica will launch (= be ready in the shelves) a M9 already this winter. They will, most likely, be busy introducing the S2 for quite some time. This is a very important market introduction. In foreseeable future it is the S2 that is going to be Leica's most important 'professional' camera.

Most optimistically, I think, is that Leica will show us a M9 mock-up, with some general specifications the 9.9.09. As they did with the S2 introduction.

I think there is a big difference between the M8 initial introduction, the S2 and the future M9.
The M8 was the first Leica digital rangefinder.
The S2 is a new breed of camera for Leica, it does not replace an older model.
Yet, the M9 will be an evolution and replacement of the M8.2. Because of this, I would tend to believe in a very short period between annoucement and the camera hitting the shelves. Otherwise, M8.2 sales could suffer for months with people delaying the purchase. A good product introduction is annoucement, phase-out of old generation and straight away the new product. The M9 rumour would support this scheme.

 

[climbing_vine]

Can you name, say, three, that don't involve a significant loss of image quality? With 77 years of legacy lenses of wildly differing designs, symmetrical, triplet, telephoto, slightly retrofocus. soft focus?

Also, what are you calling 'slight'? I don't think anything under about 20-25% (call it 6mm, a quarter of an inch) would make the designers' job much easier; about 30-35% or 10mm would be nearer the mark, and who wants a Leica body that's even 5mm thicker?

As far as I can see, this is a double non-starter: oversize bodies and poor image quality.

Cheers,

R.

I don't know nearly enough about it to say anything about the image quality.

 

[Harry Lime]

Yet, the M9 will be an evolution and replacement of the M8.2. Because of this, I would tend to believe in a very short period between annoucement and the camera hitting the shelves. Otherwise, M8.2 sales could suffer for months with people delaying the purchase. A good product introduction is annoucement, phase-out of old generation and straight away the new product. The M9 rumour would support this scheme.

I don't think it's too far fetched that Leica could have come up with an M9 in the nearly 3 years since the M8 was introduced.

The turnover cycle for high end Canon / Nikon bodies is about 3 years and the M series is a lot less complicated than a DSLR.

With the M series there is no autofocus, no matrix metering, no video capture (that we know of) to revise. Their main concern is the sensor and mechanics.

From an engineering standpoint the M8.x is something of a kluge and I have no doubt that Leica is aware of that. They've probably been very eager to do it right, the second time around. I would also not be surprised if there was a lot of the S2 in the M9, which would be the result of parallel development.

 

[TJV]

I'm looking forward to seeing this new camera eventuate, which now seems certain if the PC version of C1 includes an M9 profile.

I wouldn't hold my breath on it having both full frame AND no need for IR cut filters but I'd be happy with either or, as long as the software corrections it uses (if any) to correct colour shifts doesn't effect colour depth, editing headroom and dynamic range. The green band thing on just out of frame point sources of light needs to be fixed and I'd really appreciate weather proofing of the body (lenses obviously aren't weather proofed.) All these things included (with maybe the exception of weather proofing,) and I'd have my perfect digital camera - the camera I wished my M8 was.

I better get better at marketing in order to sell more prints so I can afford to buy one when they're released.

Good luck Leica!