JohnTF
Veteran
I did hear that Dodds in Cleveland sold three the first day, and now that Samy's got folks to sign up for 56 of them?
Any one else got a report for their cities?
Does Leica have a warehouse somewhere waiting to ship these?
Regards, John
Any one else got a report for their cities?
Does Leica have a warehouse somewhere waiting to ship these?
Regards, John
Olsen
Well-known
What I have heard is that they have a production capacity of about 20.000 per year. Which is, after deducting stoppages during holiday weeks, Christmas, etc. 'about' 2.000 units per typical working month. I would guess that somewhat less than 30% of this will go to USA, the rest to other markets. It's the dealers that supposed to do the warehousing.
scottwallick
ambition ≥ skill
In NYC, I contacted one of the known Leica 'boutiques' that reported that they would receive a 'handful' by October and that they were all accounted for. I was also told that they would receive a second shipment of a few more by the end of that month and, well, those were accounted for too.
I suspect in the US that it will be difficult to buy one off the shelf until after the new year.
But I am usually wrong.
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There are only 20 in the first shipment to all dealers in the USA, however there are more shipments pending...
JohnTF
Veteran
Would Leica not see this coming, or are they just reached some sort of production limit?
I seem to recall the US as being generally the major market of Leica in the past?
Not a criticism, there are enough of those of Leica flying about.
I do not know much about their marketing, I know there are a lot of creative packages offered by many companies.
Regards, John
I seem to recall the US as being generally the major market of Leica in the past?
Not a criticism, there are enough of those of Leica flying about.
I do not know much about their marketing, I know there are a lot of creative packages offered by many companies.
Regards, John
Olsen
Well-known
Sure, USA must have been the most important market for Leica for all the years after WWII. No less. But now that market is down, with more than 20% unemployment (the way the Germans would calculate it) and a US$ worth half of what it is used to, with ditto reduced purchasing power.
In the mean time Europeans have gained purchasing power through stronger currency. Particularly those paid in €. More of them can now afford to buy Leicas. And new markets like Russia, The Middle East and China have exploded. - It could well be that US Leica sales is less than 30%. That was only my guess.
yoyo22
Well-known
Excerpt from the fiscal year report 2008/2009 of the Leica Camera AG:
According to my information most of the M9 cameras of the first batch were delivered to Asia.
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I think that is correct, although the question is how many were in the first batch? Production began about a month ago (or less) and these cameras are hand built.
swoop
Well-known
I suspect availability will be tight for a long while. The M8 was announced in September '06. And when I bought mine in April '07 from Adorama, it still took a week to get one in stock.
The guy told me it would take 3 days. I came in on the third, and he said that the unit I had reserved was given to someone else. And said it would take another 3 days to come in from the warehouse in Jersey. I suspect these things will be flying off the shelves for awhile and availability will be limited.
Despite everyone complaining about price, even if you have the money, it's still difficult to acquire.
The guy told me it would take 3 days. I came in on the third, and he said that the unit I had reserved was given to someone else. And said it would take another 3 days to come in from the warehouse in Jersey. I suspect these things will be flying off the shelves for awhile and availability will be limited.
Despite everyone complaining about price, even if you have the money, it's still difficult to acquire.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I supect if the camera had been $1500.00 more expensive there would be little difference ... Leica may have to really bump the price so they can stem demand a little and keep production up to scratch! 
Here's hoping the M9 has none of the hidden surprises that stifled enthusiasm for the M8 somewhat! From Leica's point of view that would have to be a lot of egg to clean off your face!
Here's hoping the M9 has none of the hidden surprises that stifled enthusiasm for the M8 somewhat! From Leica's point of view that would have to be a lot of egg to clean off your face!
JohnTF
Veteran
Several of my dealer friends also tell me that the used market, especially the high end, is relatively shifted to Asia and Europe, no surprise there.
Taxes on sales in Europe, are very high by US standards. When the dollar was higher, I used to buy many of my new purchases in Prague, where I get a discount at Skoda, plus the tax refund at the airport.
It is funny that if I ship a used camera to the EU, they may tax it heavily, but if I buy a used camera and bring it back I get no refund as the item is not new.
Nikon, I could always do better here though.
Companies have a variety of pricing schemes, must be difficult to try to predict and account for the variables.
That said, I do not see the dollar going up any time soon.
I am interested, but any help on the pricing will follow any supply issues.
Regards, John
Taxes on sales in Europe, are very high by US standards. When the dollar was higher, I used to buy many of my new purchases in Prague, where I get a discount at Skoda, plus the tax refund at the airport.
It is funny that if I ship a used camera to the EU, they may tax it heavily, but if I buy a used camera and bring it back I get no refund as the item is not new.
Nikon, I could always do better here though.
Companies have a variety of pricing schemes, must be difficult to try to predict and account for the variables.
That said, I do not see the dollar going up any time soon.
I am interested, but any help on the pricing will follow any supply issues.
Regards, John
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tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Big question, of course, will be the pace of sales after the initial frenzy dies down. Really hard to tell right now how this camera is going to do.
I remember the M8 sales really dropping off - but that was attributed, at least in part, to an ill-advised price hike that was not well received by the market.
This is a great example of how anecdotal reports (My dealer says his initial order is already sold, etc.) have very little value. We just have no way of knowing how many thousands of these cameras have to be sold to recoup the company's R&D costs, etc.
Wouldn't you love to know how many they have to sell before they actually start making money on the camera?
I remember the M8 sales really dropping off - but that was attributed, at least in part, to an ill-advised price hike that was not well received by the market.
This is a great example of how anecdotal reports (My dealer says his initial order is already sold, etc.) have very little value. We just have no way of knowing how many thousands of these cameras have to be sold to recoup the company's R&D costs, etc.
Wouldn't you love to know how many they have to sell before they actually start making money on the camera?
functus
Failed Poet
Annie Liebovitz has ordered 40 M9s and put them on her credit card.
JohnTF
Veteran
That's just wrong. ;-) Everyone knows she is waiting for her S2's.
DerekF
Established
Popflash is listing delivery in January 2010.
DougFord
on the good foot
[FONT="]My guess is that the second wave of orders will dwarf the first initial demand. ‘Once bit, twice shy’ fence sitters, the vast majority of which are not M8 owners, will wait till the vetting process is complete. Not wanting to be a part of the M8 beta testing fiasco, these individuals are not ‘leica true believers’ but rational, thinking people who have no interest in plunking down 7 large without knowing the reliability and build quality issues beforehand.[/FONT]
[FONT="]My guess is that this second wave will be greater in number then the first and will continue at least through 2010. [/FONT]
Richard Marks
Rexel
Two came to sheffield and were posted out same day. There are orders for another 8 with no info on delivery dates. I think the two that came here have been exported from the UK. They were mailed without any one getting a look in.
The real question is when will a demo camera be available to try. Enough concerns have already been raised to generate caution. I did not enjoy being deceived about the M8 from a company who justify their prices on the grounds of "perfection". They have lost a lot of good will. Had the M8 been good straight up id have my M9 order well in by now. It seems increadible but it took nearly 9 months to fix the auto white ballance and IR filters on the M8! Thats less than 100% functionality for just less than 30% of its production life span! Add to that loss of 16 weeks shooting due to repairs.
I envisage quite a few corner fix and noise reduction algorithms to upload. Only after a good test run will i be able to decide if I need one. I am not going to get suckered into queuing up for one. Like the classic Who track "Won't get fooled again".
Richard
The real question is when will a demo camera be available to try. Enough concerns have already been raised to generate caution. I did not enjoy being deceived about the M8 from a company who justify their prices on the grounds of "perfection". They have lost a lot of good will. Had the M8 been good straight up id have my M9 order well in by now. It seems increadible but it took nearly 9 months to fix the auto white ballance and IR filters on the M8! Thats less than 100% functionality for just less than 30% of its production life span! Add to that loss of 16 weeks shooting due to repairs.
I envisage quite a few corner fix and noise reduction algorithms to upload. Only after a good test run will i be able to decide if I need one. I am not going to get suckered into queuing up for one. Like the classic Who track "Won't get fooled again".
Richard
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Yep, I talked to Dale in Miami, and they got 1 of that 20, they told me that deliveries look very very limited until early to mid next year, I put myself on the waiting list, by the time one`s ready (I`m hoping that they make a real chrome version) by that time there`s one out I`ll be ready to pay the $7k
Waiting Patiently
Tom
JonasYip
Well-known
My intention was to be part of that second wave... wait for some real world reports, etc. But I didn't realize the second wave would be so far out... it will probably be well into next year to get the first pre-orders filled? The unthinking, irrational part of me sort of wants one right now.
j
ferider
Veteran
Wondering if Leica has the necessary support capacity. Not for broken cameras, but lens adjustments, etc.