umboody
Established
Hey guys,
Just wanted to ask your opinion on something. I'm a third year Graphic Design student at university. For this year, our final year of study, we have to design and produce one major project. I love film photography, so the main idea I've got at the moment is a project called "Upgrade to Film"
Basically, I plan to try and get people to put down their digital cameras and move back to film, in the hope that they will learn more about photography by doing everything manually and making their own photographs, instead of just downloading pictures to their computer.
The problem is, I don't want to turn it into a rant, therefore being something uninteresting to the average hobby photographer (the audience I have initially targeted). If you are interested in the whole idea, could you give me a few suggestions on the kind of community stuff you would like to see happen. I'm already planning books, a website and forum, posters, events and that sort of thing. Any input would be great.
I realise this post is probably in the wrong category. If so, could someone notify me and I would gladly move it or delete it. Thanks guys!
Just wanted to ask your opinion on something. I'm a third year Graphic Design student at university. For this year, our final year of study, we have to design and produce one major project. I love film photography, so the main idea I've got at the moment is a project called "Upgrade to Film"
Basically, I plan to try and get people to put down their digital cameras and move back to film, in the hope that they will learn more about photography by doing everything manually and making their own photographs, instead of just downloading pictures to their computer.
The problem is, I don't want to turn it into a rant, therefore being something uninteresting to the average hobby photographer (the audience I have initially targeted). If you are interested in the whole idea, could you give me a few suggestions on the kind of community stuff you would like to see happen. I'm already planning books, a website and forum, posters, events and that sort of thing. Any input would be great.
I realise this post is probably in the wrong category. If so, could someone notify me and I would gladly move it or delete it. Thanks guys!
charjohncarter
Veteran
One area that I think film excels is old fashioned diversity. Even today the number of color films, each with its own character just blows me away. The same goes for B&W films, but when you add the developers, the methods of development, and post processing: you are looking at infinity. I don't think you need to do digital vs film. Just show some of the wonders of film.
back alley
IMAGES
maybe check your basic premise...you can do everything manually and still use digital.
for an old fart like me, learning to process with photo shop was/is just as much fun (even more) than learning to use a wet darkroom.
for an old fart like me, learning to process with photo shop was/is just as much fun (even more) than learning to use a wet darkroom.
Bobonli
Established
I think Journeyman is spot on! If you tell them explicitly what your premise is then many will tune out, having already made up their mind that digital must be better since "that's what pros use."
You need to cloak it a little. Give half the class manual film camera and the other half disposable digitals and have them shoot a project. Then compare and contrast the results, considering things like noise, tonality, sharpness, etc etc.
Of course if you do this you run the risk that the class might just prefer the digital image to the film one!
You need to cloak it a little. Give half the class manual film camera and the other half disposable digitals and have them shoot a project. Then compare and contrast the results, considering things like noise, tonality, sharpness, etc etc.
Of course if you do this you run the risk that the class might just prefer the digital image to the film one!
bwcolor
Veteran
People want ease of use. Film does not provide this. Your project is doomed from the start.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I agree with bwcolor. Most folks want photos and could care less about cameras. You would likely succeed only in proving your premise wrong.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
What the hell is a "disposable" digital camera? (Mind you, there are some souls lurking here who would argue that rapid technology change makes even a camera like the M9 "disposable".)
I'm in total agreement with Journeyman, and not just because he's an Aussie! Some of the best fun I've seen happen was at a wedding where every table was provided with a disposable Fuji or Kodak colour film camera and asked to take photos of each other, the event - anything that appealed.
The cameras were handed in at the end of the day and the bride and groom had them processed, printed and displayed. It was huge fun and got a lot of enthusiastic participation - and all achieved without the digital vs film debate.
So all you probably need to do is redefine the theme a little and how you'll get people to participate.
TomN
Established
clap trap alright.....i just shot a wedding on the weekend. it's what i do. i dropped the film at the lab and i'll pick it up in a few days, all scanned and ready to go. i just need to put the images in chronological order. before i upgraded to film, i shot with digital. dont' get me started on the post production work involved. i shoot film, and one of the reasons is its superior convenience over digital.
ps, i also shoot digital. when my wife wants a photo for ebay or facebook, digital really comes into its own.
bwcolor
Veteran
Excuse me, but we are not talking about convincing the true believers. I will never get my wife, or anyone I know, including other photographers to shoot film. When I talk to them about such things their eyes glaze over. Clap trap for those on this board.. I agree... For the general public it is digital, or will be digital.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Guys, I think we're in danger of letting our own preferences take over this thread and it's probably not adding too much value to the OP who was asking for ideas for his project. We've heard all the pro and con arguments about film vs digital before and we'll hear them again (and again).
What can we come up with that will offer some ideas for the project?
What can we come up with that will offer some ideas for the project?
Gumby
Veteran
Which premise... there are too many premises being made:
1. film is better than digital.
2. The average hobby photographer can learn photographic controls within the time required to execute a class project.
3. Manual control is better than automated control.
4. "making their own pictures" is better than "just downloading pictures onto a computer"
The problem should be pared down to one premise that is "do-able".
wgerrard
Veteran
umboody, I'm not sure if you'll need to lure people into your project or whether it will be mandatory.
In any event, however, you might start by cogently spelling out why you like film. Is it just the film gestalt that appeals or can you point to specific attributes of film that appeal to you more than digital? People will want to know why you like film.
I agree with others that most folks are legitimately happy with digital and that any attempt to convert them to film is very probably futile. But, your colleagues are graphic design students, so one would think they would be more open to the creative attributes of film, which involves so much more than just pressing the shutter. Perhaps that's a hook for your project.
In any event, however, you might start by cogently spelling out why you like film. Is it just the film gestalt that appeals or can you point to specific attributes of film that appeal to you more than digital? People will want to know why you like film.
I agree with others that most folks are legitimately happy with digital and that any attempt to convert them to film is very probably futile. But, your colleagues are graphic design students, so one would think they would be more open to the creative attributes of film, which involves so much more than just pressing the shutter. Perhaps that's a hook for your project.
back alley
IMAGES
this time around it's the film user who is being rude, trolling and looking to start a fight.
Gumby
Veteran
so, joe... what does that expression mean? Really... I don't know.
back alley
IMAGES
claptrap, absurd or nonsensical talk or ideas...
bmattock
Veteran
Everyone please notice how I am staying well out of this one. See? I can keep my opinions to myself sometimes. Here I am staying well out of it. Not coming near it. Nope. No opinions here. I think everyone is just great and all opinions are equally valid.
Well, that's boring. Time for sleep. G'night!
Well, that's boring. Time for sleep. G'night!
back alley
IMAGES
is or isn't is not the point. the point is let's try not to be rude.
bwcolor
Veteran
I thought that opinion was requested. I did not intend to begin some form of battle.
If a coherent presentation is all that is required then I'm sure that one can be assembled. I am one that has just picked up film after seven years of only digital. This site alone and viewing photos posted convinced me that film was a worthy endeavor. I will soon be placing my 1DMKIII on Ebay. I'm all in favor of presenting such ideas, but I wanted to be useful by conveying my experience over the last few months. People think that I've gone crazy, but then again, they thought that I was nuts before this.
So, if convincing someone that they should turn from film as an "upgrade" is measured by the numbers upgrading, then I think that the project faces serious challenges. If you want to show film to be an "alternative", then I think that you have a much better project.
If a coherent presentation is all that is required then I'm sure that one can be assembled. I am one that has just picked up film after seven years of only digital. This site alone and viewing photos posted convinced me that film was a worthy endeavor. I will soon be placing my 1DMKIII on Ebay. I'm all in favor of presenting such ideas, but I wanted to be useful by conveying my experience over the last few months. People think that I've gone crazy, but then again, they thought that I was nuts before this.
So, if convincing someone that they should turn from film as an "upgrade" is measured by the numbers upgrading, then I think that the project faces serious challenges. If you want to show film to be an "alternative", then I think that you have a much better project.
wayneb
Established
He's a graphic design student - this is not a corporate project with a 200k budget. The project doesn't have to actually convert many thousands, it just has to be an example that he can communicate a message about something he has an opinion about...
Here's what I would consider - why do Europeans take the train so many places when it is faster (and sometimes cheaper) to fly? Or faster to take a car? It's very difficult to convince Americans to "go back" to trains, but it is a very civilized form of transportation, especially where the system is reliable and good.
Using a traditional medium that connects you to the past (and past family photos) creates a slight slower situation where you can be a little more careful. In a poster or brochure I imagine showing the dad with the digital camera shooting everything he sees and the mom with the old Nikon taking just a few careful really tasteful shots of the kids, the keepers.
Here's what I would consider - why do Europeans take the train so many places when it is faster (and sometimes cheaper) to fly? Or faster to take a car? It's very difficult to convince Americans to "go back" to trains, but it is a very civilized form of transportation, especially where the system is reliable and good.
Using a traditional medium that connects you to the past (and past family photos) creates a slight slower situation where you can be a little more careful. In a poster or brochure I imagine showing the dad with the digital camera shooting everything he sees and the mom with the old Nikon taking just a few careful really tasteful shots of the kids, the keepers.
umboody
Established
Cheers for the great feedback so far. I didn't mean to cause an argument here. I can see a lot of people have a lot of different preferences and it has opened my eyes to the problems it could cause if I started to actively try to persuade people to do something they may not want to do.
Fair point, but at the university I'm at, people are coming into the documentary photography course (which is very well reputed, not least because Martin Parr is a resident lecturer here) and have never really thought about film as any kind of option over digital. Sure, they wizz through their projects with their digital SLRs, but when I look at their work, I don't feel the kind of soul and effort present when compared to those who have used film. Besides, your experience with learning Photoshop could be applied to those students who have little or no experience in the darkroom. For them, rediscovering the art of processing your own film could be more exhilarating than experiencing new technologies to make images.
I agree with you on that, but I'm hoping to show film in such a light that people would enjoy giving it a go, no matter how long or difficult it is. After all, many people like a challenge. And I certainly hope that the students here want to make good images, not those that are easy to make...
Very true. People who have been doing it for years will most likely never switch back to film. I was wrong to target my project at hobby photographers like I did. This would be unwise. I should tailor it more to the student population, those who are younger and willing to try new things, take risks, learn about different aspects of photography.
I like that idea very much. I shall refer to quality over quantity without explicitly explaining the fact that most of the pictures you take with a digital camera will be thrown away.
Thanks for the opinions guys. I've read all of your comments and I am somewhat clearer as to where to proceed from here. Any more comments would be fantastic and I will keep you updated. Cheers!
Fair point, but at the university I'm at, people are coming into the documentary photography course (which is very well reputed, not least because Martin Parr is a resident lecturer here) and have never really thought about film as any kind of option over digital. Sure, they wizz through their projects with their digital SLRs, but when I look at their work, I don't feel the kind of soul and effort present when compared to those who have used film. Besides, your experience with learning Photoshop could be applied to those students who have little or no experience in the darkroom. For them, rediscovering the art of processing your own film could be more exhilarating than experiencing new technologies to make images.
I agree with you on that, but I'm hoping to show film in such a light that people would enjoy giving it a go, no matter how long or difficult it is. After all, many people like a challenge. And I certainly hope that the students here want to make good images, not those that are easy to make...
Very true. People who have been doing it for years will most likely never switch back to film. I was wrong to target my project at hobby photographers like I did. This would be unwise. I should tailor it more to the student population, those who are younger and willing to try new things, take risks, learn about different aspects of photography.
I like that idea very much. I shall refer to quality over quantity without explicitly explaining the fact that most of the pictures you take with a digital camera will be thrown away.
Thanks for the opinions guys. I've read all of your comments and I am somewhat clearer as to where to proceed from here. Any more comments would be fantastic and I will keep you updated. Cheers!