edodo
Well-known
I am in the position of buying both at the same price, which one to get?
What I fear with the M7 is long term solidity and reliability. The seller states it is in top shape with MP finder 0.85. On the hand I want it for it's AE for those occasion where speed is king!
The black paint M4 has just been serviced by a old leica tech. With original box, papers and strap.
I plan to shoot with either one of them, the choice is hard for me as the black paint M4 looks fabulous!
Help me please.
My lenses are 25mm skopar black, 35mm f2 canon, 50mm summicron chrome tabbed, 85mm f2 nikon ltm chrome.
What I fear with the M7 is long term solidity and reliability. The seller states it is in top shape with MP finder 0.85. On the hand I want it for it's AE for those occasion where speed is king!
The black paint M4 has just been serviced by a old leica tech. With original box, papers and strap.
I plan to shoot with either one of them, the choice is hard for me as the black paint M4 looks fabulous!
Help me please.
My lenses are 25mm skopar black, 35mm f2 canon, 50mm summicron chrome tabbed, 85mm f2 nikon ltm chrome.
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kshapero
South Florida Man
I went with the M7 w/ MP VF 0.85. Best decision for me.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I wouldn't base the decision on the lens color for sure! The black paint on the M4 won't hold up, if it isn't already showing brass. Still, twenty years down the road that M4 will still be churning out pix, and probably in forty years as well if you can buy film. The M7? Who knows? I'd go with the M4. We know that they hold up over time.
edodo
Well-known
Hey Al! That is my feeling too, that the M7 may need repairs due to failure of some weird parts... Only seven years after its been released the M7 shows that there are known issues already, but I know internet is the widest place for people to complain so... dont know the ratio of failed and good cams.
The M4 shows brass but not a lot. I don't care if the BP wears off completely as I use it. I like the look of it. Also even if it is a lil bit of a collector's item, I won't mind banging it. In my eye, someone rich will still buy it at a premium in 20 or 30 years from now if my children sell it after I pass it to them!
The M4 shows brass but not a lot. I don't care if the BP wears off completely as I use it. I like the look of it. Also even if it is a lil bit of a collector's item, I won't mind banging it. In my eye, someone rich will still buy it at a premium in 20 or 30 years from now if my children sell it after I pass it to them!
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Merkin
For the Weekend
If it were me, in a rare moment of thinking with my heart instead of my head, I would go with the black paint m4, because i am a total slut for brassed black paint cameras. Sure, the M7 might be the smarter choice, but screw it- the black paint m4 is quite possibly the sexiest looking 35mm camera ever made.
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
If I were you, I'll choose Black M4 in a heart beat. I have/have owned only one black paint Leica, which is an MP. Black MP won't get any premium value, but I'll still choose black paint over chrome whatever "limited edition" MP if I have a choice.
I bet M7 is a great camera with convenient AE, but M4's smoothness and simplicity is really something else. If I really really need AE with RF/Leica lens, I'll still buy that M4 BP and buy an R2A/R3A to fulfill the AE needs.
Whole over-time premium value stuff aside, again, I'll still choose M4 with fully mechanical operation. I think part of buying/owning a Leica is for knowing your camera can easily outlive you and you can hand it down to your children or even grandchildren.
I know it's a personal choice, and maybe chrome M7 might be the better choice for many, but I'll buy the M4 black paint before someone else snatch it if I were you.
I bet M7 is a great camera with convenient AE, but M4's smoothness and simplicity is really something else. If I really really need AE with RF/Leica lens, I'll still buy that M4 BP and buy an R2A/R3A to fulfill the AE needs.
Whole over-time premium value stuff aside, again, I'll still choose M4 with fully mechanical operation. I think part of buying/owning a Leica is for knowing your camera can easily outlive you and you can hand it down to your children or even grandchildren.
I know it's a personal choice, and maybe chrome M7 might be the better choice for many, but I'll buy the M4 black paint before someone else snatch it if I were you.
naruto
GASitis.. finally cured?
What an appropriate thread for me. I am looking at a trade-in of my M6 TTL with MP viewfinder for a Black Re-paint M2 that has had a complete overhaul. I am caught between wanting to continue using the M6 and owning that mechanical beauty M2. I regret parting with the chrome M2...
I am looking at a trade-in of my M6 TTL with MP viewfinder for a Black Re-paint M2 that has had a complete overhaul. I am caught between wanting to continue using the M6 and owning that mechanical beauty M2. I regret parting with the chrome M2...
kshapero
South Florida Man
Is there a difference between a black paint M4 and a black paint M7? Other than the paint on the M7 appears to thicker?
Ghiom
Established
Reason would make me ask first if you have another M body that you will keep aside or if that new one is going to be your one and only ?
If you would plan to keep 2 bodies, I would consider their complementarity as a major argument...
But if the question is just M7 or BP M4 (cla'd)... I would definitively go for the BP M4 !
If you would plan to keep 2 bodies, I would consider their complementarity as a major argument...
But if the question is just M7 or BP M4 (cla'd)... I would definitively go for the BP M4 !
maddoc
... likes film again.
Well, the M4 has a 0.72x VF and the M7 0.85x, two quite different beasts. Which camera do you use now, since you mention some lenses that you already own ?
edodo
Well-known
Well to complicate things a little more, I already have a M4 and a M4p, which both I am not reluctant to sale! The chrome M4 is my best M, so smooth. The M4p is a little rough and the 1/15 sec needs some lubrification. Otherwise I don't have a 28mm so can't exploit the M4p to its full use.
I shoot mainly 50mm lens, but 35mm comes handy with reporter stuff in order to gain proximity and intimacy.
85mm only for portraiture and the 25mm for architecturalscape.
I like 0.72 for the 50mm, easy eye relief and great space all around. I was even fancying about the 0.58 for having the same advantages with a 35mm lens.
I heard minority of persons liking the 0.85 for 35mm, but the idea of both eye open I like very much.
I see everyone almost go for the BP M4, I have this camera as my dream ultimate leica. Since I enjoy the regular M4, I always wanted to get it repaint in black paint. Brassing apart, it sure would be fun to smash this metal brick in my bag.
I shoot mainly 50mm lens, but 35mm comes handy with reporter stuff in order to gain proximity and intimacy.
85mm only for portraiture and the 25mm for architecturalscape.
I like 0.72 for the 50mm, easy eye relief and great space all around. I was even fancying about the 0.58 for having the same advantages with a 35mm lens.
I heard minority of persons liking the 0.85 for 35mm, but the idea of both eye open I like very much.
I see everyone almost go for the BP M4, I have this camera as my dream ultimate leica. Since I enjoy the regular M4, I always wanted to get it repaint in black paint. Brassing apart, it sure would be fun to smash this metal brick in my bag.
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edodo
Well-known
I agree 200% on that, I need the M7 0.85 or 0.58, but that BP M4 is just so seducing. Like a handsome devil you know!
Oh and one more thing. I praticed sunny 16 rule since a long time now. I read light fairly well, that is no problem. Anyway I use my handheld meter when I got the time. I like to work without meter, like climbing without a net, old shool I say.
But there is always that sudden fast moving subject that is just impossible to catch with the non meter M
The cheap bessa for AE is a good advice, didn't give a tought before. I was looking to shoot more slides with the M7, if I choose it. Just for the sake of editing on the light table, which is a real pleasure I'm sure you film shooter enjoy like me. But I prefer to use film like portra for the wide dynamic range making it look real different than digital.
Color film with meterless BP M4 sure should be fun though.
Hard to decide ain't it?
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coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
Your brain is telling you to take M7, but your heart is screaming for the BP M4?
After hearing you already have an M4 and an M4-P, wanting to shoot color, possibly even slides, I say: I'd still go for BP M4 if I were you.
If you later realize you really want an AE body, you can easily find M7 (understand MP VF is a plus), sell your M4-P to get Bessa, or just add Bessa in addition to your M4s. But you won't come across with a CLA'd BP M4 that often.
I think, especially when it comes to buying film cameras, you should follow your heart, not your brain.
After hearing you already have an M4 and an M4-P, wanting to shoot color, possibly even slides, I say: I'd still go for BP M4 if I were you.
If you later realize you really want an AE body, you can easily find M7 (understand MP VF is a plus), sell your M4-P to get Bessa, or just add Bessa in addition to your M4s. But you won't come across with a CLA'd BP M4 that often.
I think, especially when it comes to buying film cameras, you should follow your heart, not your brain.
bob338
Well-known
i have a bp m4 and a .85 m7, and i would probably choose the m4 out of the two of them. you will always be able to find an m7, but a black paint m4 in good condition that actually works properly is not always going to be within your reach.
another thing to consider is that the m7 will probably decline in value, it will likely never be worth more money than you pay for it now. the black paint m4 will probably go up in value.
the bp m4 i have is not in working condition, in fact it's practically a paperweight, but it is very pretty to look at. i also have a bp m3 and the m4 is just as cool looking... one of these days, i will get it restored.
buy the m4!
bob
another thing to consider is that the m7 will probably decline in value, it will likely never be worth more money than you pay for it now. the black paint m4 will probably go up in value.
the bp m4 i have is not in working condition, in fact it's practically a paperweight, but it is very pretty to look at. i also have a bp m3 and the m4 is just as cool looking... one of these days, i will get it restored.
buy the m4!
bob
edodo
Well-known
Oh my! I always wanted a BP M4... I should follow my guts... Anyway getting a ricoh GR or a bessa is a better idea of AE camera.
I think I'll go BP M4 now because it feels like a more confident move knowing that I already love my regular M4. It sure is smooth to me but didn't had a CLA since ages according to the wax seal! The repairer was french and went out of business in the early 80's, my M4 is still working perfect, impressive smoothness one must say!
I think I'll go BP M4 now because it feels like a more confident move knowing that I already love my regular M4. It sure is smooth to me but didn't had a CLA since ages according to the wax seal! The repairer was french and went out of business in the early 80's, my M4 is still working perfect, impressive smoothness one must say!
Ghiom
Established
If I understood well... I would finally say: sell what you have (1 M4 & 1 M4P) and get both: M7 0.85 for AE and the 0.85... AND the BP M4 because it is your ultimate camera dream...
"on ne vit qu'une fois" !
PS: Ricoh's GR1s/v are also great by the way...
"on ne vit qu'une fois" !
PS: Ricoh's GR1s/v are also great by the way...
gilpen123
Gil
There's a black paint M4 50 Jahre at KEH now for 2.7K and a BP M4 at 2K.
edodo
Well-known
The 2K one, thats not a black paint, it's black chrome
gilpen123
Gil
Oh ok my bad, a black chrome M4. If it's me I would choose the M7 w/ MP finder 0.85 as I love to shoot with the 40/50 & 90.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Hm .... if you already have an M4, the main difference will be the color of the top-plate between the two cameras and maybe a slightly different handling due to the condition of the internals....
About reliability .... Well my M7 bought used in April this year as factory refurbished (and upgraded to MP-like VF and optical DX coder) is at Leica again to have the broken shutter repaired... The camera worked exactly for 70 rolls of 135-36 or one set of 1/3N batteries. :bang: At the moment, I use therefore only my meterless M4-P, which is a joy to use but I have to confess that I truly miss AE ... At night and for BW, meter-less is fine but at daytime and with color-slide film, the M7's AE is idiot-proof and very convenient.
I also had two M4s before, plain-jane silver-chrome versions. They were nice and smooth and worked fine but the VF of my M4-P has a higher contrast, is free from ghost-images at night and I can live with the occasionally flare.
About reliability .... Well my M7 bought used in April this year as factory refurbished (and upgraded to MP-like VF and optical DX coder) is at Leica again to have the broken shutter repaired... The camera worked exactly for 70 rolls of 135-36 or one set of 1/3N batteries. :bang: At the moment, I use therefore only my meterless M4-P, which is a joy to use but I have to confess that I truly miss AE ... At night and for BW, meter-less is fine but at daytime and with color-slide film, the M7's AE is idiot-proof and very convenient.
I also had two M4s before, plain-jane silver-chrome versions. They were nice and smooth and worked fine but the VF of my M4-P has a higher contrast, is free from ghost-images at night and I can live with the occasionally flare.