Tri-X in Rodinal - where to start?

Ken Ford

Ken Ford

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I've decided to restrict myself to Tri-X in Rodinal for the immediate future - I'm setting up my wet darkroom for the first time in years.

This was my favorite combination back in the late 70s, but I've forgotten everything I knew about it. Searching past threads is like drinking from a firehose.

Where should I start with EI, dilutions and processing times? I'm not much of a darkroom experimenter, I prefer finding what works for me and sticking with it.

Is stand development worth trying to start?
 
Good luck Ken! Perfect choice.

Start here, print this and keep it handy.

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Times_Rodinal/Rodinal.pdf

More:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Times_Rodinal/times_rodinal.html

Look for the Rodinal 1:100 thread here at RFF for stand development. Recent posts from P. Lynne Miller give the whole story. He has got stand development down to an art. I tried it once with PanF+. It works!

Keep us posted. Members of the Brotherhood of Rodinal will visit with you soon and teach you the secret handshake.
 
Of course it all depends on your working methods and so forth, but you might want to try 400tx @ E.I. 250 - Rodinal 1:100 - 20 mins, agitate 10 seconds every minute for the first 5 minutes and then agitate once every 2 mins.

When agitating with rodinal and tri-x, agitate very gently, the above agitation instructions are a bit too much, but I quite like my grain.

Good luck and of course your results may vary
 
What works for me (Nikon Coolscan V) is Rodinal 20C, 1+50, 8.5-9 minutes, 1 minute easy agitation to start and then 2 slow inversions every minute. I have been reading on a German forum that Rodinal would actual benefit from being used at lower temperature, but have not found time to dig into that.
 
I like Tri-X exposed at iso 250, and developed in Rodinal 1:50, 11 mins @ 20 degrees C, 30 seconds slow continuous, 3 inversions after 30 seconds, and 3 inversions every 2 mins. thereafter. I learned this approach from RFF member mfogiel, who has gotten excellent results w/ it (as you can see from some of his shots on flickr).

I haven't tried stand development yet, but the results that P. Lynn Miller posted in the threads mentioned above are impressive.
 
Over and over, people say that Rodinal should be agitated gently and not very often. Leading up to the 1 & 2 hour stand treatment.
 
If I were going to start with TriX in Rodinal I would use 1+50 at a specific time, etc. The enclosed sheet with your Rodinal has good times that to me seem accurate. There are plenty of problems with stand development, one with TriX is with roll film; not all the lighting is consistent so you get a flattening of the tones on some frames, then there is bromide drag, uneven development, and probably more (plastic reels). Many people use stand and get great results (even I have) but it is much more rewarding to have something that works almost every time when you are starting out.
 
Being a long time member of Rodoholic' Anonymous ( since the early 60's) I usually rate my TriX at 320-400 (mostly Sunny F16 shooting) and develop in Rodinal 1:50 for 11 min. Active "shake and roll" for the first 30 sec - then 2 inversions/60 sec.
If I know that stuff has been shot in high contrast light - I go 1:60 for 10 minutes - with 30 sec. initial "shake and roll" and then very gentle agitation every 120 sec (2 turns).
Overagitation is the nemesis of Rodinal - contrast/grain builds up very quickly. When in doubt, err on the "gentle" side.
This said, I am now going up into the darkroom and running 5 rolls of TriX, probably 1:60 for 11 min. as we have had some unseasonal sunshine - but I am adding a minute, just in case.
Both stand developing and 1:100/20 minutes work - but try that later. I tend to do those times with slower films too (PanF/Acros/Efke etc) - if am shooting with 400 asa to start with - grain is not a factor unless you are going 16x20" prints.
 
@ Double Negative, those are great shots. These are low/medium contrast scene are really show what Rodinal can add some 'pop' to a flat subject. I wouldn't think from my experience that these shots would have done as well doing stand.

TomA, I have found the same thing, slow film works better for me; standing.

This roll was done with stand, here are two shots (Tmax100)from that roll that really benefited from stand:

2351372668_c69b683787.jpg


2350541675_60d8b06b95.jpg


The rest on that roll were only average; too flat.
 
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Since you are planning to make this your bread-n-butter combo I would recommend you sacrifice a roll
Plan on a development time (i.e. 12 min 1+50) then expose a normal escene, -2,-1,0,+1,+2, blank, then a soft and a contrasty scene using same proceudre

Develop and then evaluate the best EI (ASA setting) for each condition.

Then adjust your exposure according to the results you got ;)
 
I have used Rodinal in many different ways: 1:50, 1:100, stand-dev with and without borax with 1:100 or even 1:200, and also mixed with Xtol.

In most cases with Tri-X, 1:50 is optimal; if you anticipate high contrast pictures, stand-dev may be considered. If you don't like grain, don't use Rodinal... err, well, try the mix with Xtol.
 
Just put up 25 shots on our Flickr site. TriX/Arista Premium 400 done with Rodinal 1:50/10 min. A whole lot of shaking and rolling for the first 60sec - then two inversions every 120 sec. Looks OK tonal wise - grain is there, but it was TriX after all. Probably could have used another minute as the shadows are a bit blocked. Scanned fine though.
Mixed batch, M6/R4M (metered cameras - film rated at 400) and a couple of M2's with guestimated exposures (sunny f16). Mostly high contrast light - we are having unseasonably nice weather.
 
My procedure is agitation for the first 30 seconds and then 2 inversions every minute after. (APX400, Tri-X, 400PR, I only change developing times slightly, depending on the film). Important is to stay below 20 degrees Celsius, I usually develop at 19 degrees and try not to over agitate.
 
To find my best exposure/development times, here's what I do: I shoot a non changing light scene, with incident metering using a yellow filter (always on my lenses) and I do -2,-1,N,+1 and +2.


I -as quickly as possible- place that bracketing four times in the center of frames 1-9,10-18,19-27 and 28-36... I rewind, and in a dark bag I cut the film -arfer trimming a bit of the beginning and a bit of the end- in two by the center, and then again each of the halves in two, and keep the four pieces in the black plastic container very well closed...


Then I develop each piece with a different time, from a few less minutes than recommended, to a few more.


Then, as base density of pieces is different, I make contact prints separately, to the point where base reaches almost pure black: last month I did a lot of tests for stand and semistand, and at f/5.6, my contacts required 30 seconds, 70 seconds, 2 minutes, and 8 minutes!, for developing times of 30 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours and 4 hours... (It was hard work, and I feel cured for life!)


Then I stick the four pieces of paper together, because it's the only way to really see a combo: you can this way see what's up with shadows, and what's up with highlights. Then I pick my preferred exposure/development, and go out and shoot a roll for that kind of contrast scene to check it's perfect.


Now, here you have it all for free (and #$%! the massive developing chart, ha ha...)


120 Tri-X 320 under direct sun for clear shadows: ISO50, 12 minutes with 3 inversions every minute. No presoak, and 30 seconds of inversions at the beginning. 20ºC.


120 Tri-X 320 overcast or in the shadows: ISO200, 16 minutes with 3 inversions every minute. No presoak, and 30 seconds of inversions at the beginning. 20ºC.


35mm Tri-X 400 under direct sun for clear shadows: ISO50, 14 minutes with 3 inversions every 3 minutes. No presoak, and 30 seconds of inversions at the beginning. 20ºC.


35mm Tri-X 400 overcast or in the shadows: ISO200, 18 minutes with 3 inversions every minute. No presoak, and 30 seconds of inversions at the beginning. 20ºC.


35mm Tri-X 400 for low natural light without yellow filter: ISO1600, 60 minutes with 3 inversions every 5 minutes. Presoak, and 30 seconds of inversions at the beginning. High contrast, little shadow detail, but OK. Less agitation or longer times are worse. 18ºC.


35mm Tri-X 400 for low tungsten light without yellow filter: ISO3200, 60 minutes with 3 inversions every 5 minutes. Presoak, and 30 seconds of inversions at the beginning. High contrast, little shadow detail, but OK. Less agitation or longer times are worse. 18ºC.


This is for real printing! What about scanning? Anything will do! After scanning and digital printing, Tri-X is not Tri-X! Consider shooting digital...


Cheers,


Juan
 
titrisol said:
Since you are planning to make this your bread-n-butter combo I would recommend you sacrifice a roll
Plan on a development time (i.e. 12 min 1+50) then expose a normal escene, -2,-1,0,+1,+2, blank, then a soft and a contrasty scene using same proceudre

Develop and then evaluate the best EI (ASA setting) for each condition.

Then adjust your exposure according to the results you got ;)
Click to expand...

I think this is excellent advice!
 
Ken, if you don't do the other half (experiment with several developing times for the same shot) you'll end up printing whatever you get just from the exposition for the shadows (bracketing), without learning on different contrast scenes and their highlights handling.

Just an advice in case you care enough until there...


Cheers,

Juan
 
Wow! was just thinking about this, I've only got enough X-Tol for 3-4 more rolls, so I was thinking of getting Rodinal. This thread is very timely for me, I was about to do a search when I saw this. Looks like I'll be joining the Brotherhood in the immediate future.
 
Rodinal's fun, Marlon. It's incredible how dark it gets with months and still does its job well.

I put some of it when new in two 100ml plastic bottles for travel development, and use the rest at home until it becomes brown.

By the way, I forgot to write that all times given are for 1:50 dilution.

Cheers,

Juan
 
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