The Weird Feeling Of "Freedom" with A TLR?

dcsang

dcsang

Canadian & Not A Dentist
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Ok.. so I finally found a Rolleiflex.

It's a 3.5 T (as per Al Kaplan's suggestion) and, really, I dig it.

I was hasty when I got it and loaded the film and I didn't even realize that the gosh darn thing had that spring loaded 6x4.5 mask installed in it :eek: :eek:

I've since taken that out and am ready to put another roll in and shoot 6x6 again.

But

What I've noticed, while I was using it for some photos was the weird feeling of being a lot more "free" to not care about what people thought around me.

Let me see if I can get this across to you lot.

When I use my M7, it's like using any other "normal" camera with a viewfinder - hold it up to my eye, focus, frame and shoot. I do that with my Nikon DSLRs, the Nikon FM2n I have and, I guess, to some extent, the GR Digital too (although there really is no built in viewfinder on that).

With the Rollei, I still have to focus, frame and shoot but I'm looking down into the camera. I'm looking at my subject/scene but, they don't see me per se - they don't see my eye looking at them. They see me looking down, into the WLF and the box and when I've got the scene, I shoot.

I know this is not anything knew to you folks who have shot TLRs before but for me, well, it made me think a great deal about how or why I have this "fear" of holding the camera up to my face and pointing the lens at a scene.

Wait, I guess it's not so much my fear as much as it is the fear that folks have of seeing a camera pointed in their direction - or a camera that they "recognize" as being a camera.

Anyway, it seems that I just felt "more free" to shoot whatever and whoever I wanted on the street with the TLR versus a standard SLR/RF - Maybe it's just the way I've been thinking about it all this time.

If I can just get that same "lack of fear" or "freedom" from the TLR to translate over to the RF and SLR, I should be "just fine"....

Cheers,
dave
 
I had the same feeling when I used a TLR, but I kept moving the camera in every wrong direction to try to get the right framing, since the image is all reversed. It made me go back to the simple intuitive process of looking straight on at a person - good ol' RF photography.
 
I shot for years only with a waist level on a Nikon F. I can't explain it but I did feel free. I would literally have the camera on waist level and able to focus and work the controls so people wouldn't know I was shooting. My eyes are no good now and need to have the pop up magnifier in my face. Here's a shot I sneaked with an 85/1.8 on an old F.
 

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it's social conditioning at work. there is nothing embarrassing or dangerous or scary about pointing a Leica at somebody; you've just been conditioned to fear it. Eye-to-eye contact makes you squeamish... It was the same for HCB as it is for you. Forget your ego and you won't have anymore problems. Just look at how Bruce Gilden shoots. You think he cares what people think about him when he is ramming a flash into somebody elses face? Nope, and nobody dares question him.
 
Yes, I know what you mean. Add to that:

-less obvious when trigger finger is depressing the shutter
-super quiet leaf shutters
-neck strap can be tensioned for support, either using neck or foot
-can be held overhead upside-down for getting over a crowd
-subtle change in perspective in portraits (eg. Avedon, Arbus)
-much better for macro than RF (but not as good as SLR or view camera)
-big whopping negative
-some consensus they are babe magnets

I might suggest you carry a spare spool and save your spools & backing paper for respooling 135 so to shoot panoramic format & through the sprocket holes when the mood strikes.
 
ElectroWNED said:
it's social conditioning at work. there is nothing embarrassing or dangerous or scary about pointing a Leica at somebody; you've just been conditioned to fear it. Eye-to-eye contact makes you squeamish... It was the same for HCB as it is for you. Forget your ego and you won't have anymore problems. Just look at how Bruce Gilden shoots. You think he cares what people think about him when he is ramming a flash into somebody elses face? Nope, and nobody dares question him.
Click to expand...

True. However, I find people are less likely to notice a TLR. I would also say Bruce Gilden wants people to know they are being photographed. There is a difference between people noticing you yet choosing not to take issue with what you are doing and operating without people noticing you at all. Not saying this isn't possible with a rangefinder, etc. Just sayin'

I agree with the OP, btw. I love shooting with a TLR.
 
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I find the perspective from a WLF more appealing than at my eye level. Holding a TLR is also more natural to me.

I am still waiting for the babes to come up and ask me about my camera :p
 
I agree w/ElectroWNED.

Personally, w/only a few exceptions, I haven't found the looking down aspect of TLRs to make me any less conspicuous than when I use eye-level cameras, so I now have gone to using a prism finder on my Rolleis when fast reaction is necessary. There is a small recognition lag in street shooting, but I don't think it's really significant & certainly doesn't make you invisible. After all, many digital still & video cameras have flip screens; I think most people can figure out where the lenses on your TLR are pointing. That said, there may be something to the fact that people seem to be less threatened by big cameras, so long as they're sufficiently old-fashioned looking. TLRs certainly fall into that category, but so does anything w/bellows on it, like a large format camera or a medium format folder.

Sadly, I have also not found TLRs to be babe magnets. Like RFs, they seem to be mostly old/middle-aged dude magnets, though I did have a young guy ask me once if I was using a (film) movie camera (when using the prism finder). I've come to call them "grandpa cameras" because it seems that everybody's grandpa used to use a TLR back in the day. I think Holgas, Dianas, & other toy cameras are much more popular w/the ladies.
 
I like that not looking eye to eye with the subject, too. And there is something about looking away from the finder and then back without losing your momentum. I have 3 TLRs and every time I take one out in a crowd some female asks me about it, otherwise I'm the invisible man.
 
ElectroWNED said:
it's social conditioning at work. there is nothing embarrassing or dangerous or scary about pointing a Leica at somebody; you've just been conditioned to fear it. Eye-to-eye contact makes you squeamish... It was the same for HCB as it is for you. Forget your ego and you won't have anymore problems. Just look at how Bruce Gilden shoots. You think he cares what people think about him when he is ramming a flash into somebody elses face? Nope, and nobody dares question him.
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no - I mean, sure, eye to eye contact can be "squeamish" if you don't know the person and the person clearly seems perturbed (i.e. "Why are you taking my photo??") but at the same time it doesn't bother "me" per se so much as I see people turn away or act differently the moment that camera is raised to eye level.

Yes, it's "social conditioning" but more so from the perspective of subjects - they are nervous of cameras (as ubiquitous as they are) because they've been told of all the privacy issues etc.

For me, well, ya know, I grew up with "manners" per se and if someone does not want their photo taken, I oblige and don't take it. If I point the camera in someone's direction and they sneer, 9/10 times I'll oblige and lower it unless I can sense that I can "joke" my way out of it.

That's my take on it at least :)

Cheers,
Dave
 
Can you get the same "looking down effect" with a digital camera that has a pivoting rear screen, like the Lumix G-1? Or is there some additional filmic effect going on here?

/T
 
Tuolumne said:
Can you get the same "looking down effect" with a digital camera that has a pivoting rear screen, like the Lumix G-1? Or is there some additional filmic effect going on here?

/T
Click to expand...

I think it's perfectly possible - I just think using a digital camera would make people think you're "filming" them (i.e. shooting a movie) versus taking a photo :)

The only reason I say this is the prevalence of "movie mode" on digital cams and most people being aware of this mode (nowadays) - back in the film days you may have been looked upon as "weird" if you held a camera like that perhaps?

Cheers,
Dave
 
I've noticed the same thing when I'm out shooting with a TLR. For some reason I feel more comfortable shooting with the waist level finder and seeing my subjects that way. I really enjoy shooting with it and it's on my top three list of cameras I routinely grab when heading out.

David William White said:
-some consensus they are babe magnets.
Click to expand...


I agree - they are such babe magnets that I couldn't resist owning a few. :D

Karen
 
Subject interaction is preferred or avoided depending on what sort of results you want; neither is inherently superior, IMO. I mostly want a cooperative subject, but I'll often suggest they just continue what they were doing before I appeared. Interaction is part of the fun of the process. It is usually annoying when the subject cooperates TOO much and deliberately poses, but sometimes that works too. But Japanese young people flashing the V-sign -- I don't know what that means; maybe just "I see you, I enjoy being photographed"?

So a camera which helps you have it both ways - unnoticed or interacting - would be an advantage, seems like. I too have noticed larger cameras are more often ignored!
 
Tuolumne said:
Can you get the same "looking down effect" with a digital camera that has a pivoting rear screen, like the Lumix G-1? Or is there some additional filmic effect going on here?

/T
Click to expand...

This is what I liked doing with my old Nikon Coolpix 950. They had the split body that swiveled in the middle. Normally when using the VF, you would turn one half of the body 90 degrees to the other half. But when using the LCD to shoot, you just kept kept the body flat and horizontal, and looked down at the LCD. And since the lens was on the "edge" of the camera body, as opposed to the face as most cameras are, it was even less obvious when you were photographying someone.
 
Of course you can have the same effect with a Hasselblad ... then of course you press the shutter and everyone spins around and goes ... "what the?" :D
 
IMHO an odd looking camera (bellows, a funky viewfinder attachment or a TLR) makes people think "ooh... art photographer" as opposed to sticking one of the super sized big front element modern zooms in their face and blasting away at 5 + fames a second.

"Every" intrusive papparazzi has the latest CaNikSonOly DSLR and the response to that is socially conditioned I agree - both for the photographer and the subject.
The mitigating factor is often how the photographer uses their greatest tool in their kit bag - their ability to interact on a human scale with the subject. A big piece of flashy technology puts more barriers between people than a quiet old school camera.
 
jmilkins said:
IMHO an odd looking camera (bellows, a funky viewfinder attachment or a TLR) makes people think "ooh... art photographer" as opposed to sticking one of the super sized big front element modern zooms in their face and blasting away at 5 + fames a second.

"Every" intrusive papparazzi has the latest CaNikSonOly DSLR and the response to that is socially conditioned I agree - both for the photographer and the subject.
The mitigating factor is often how the photographer uses their greatest tool in their kit bag - their ability to interact on a human scale with the subject. A big piece of flashy technology puts more barriers between people than a quiet old school camera.
Click to expand...

There may be some truth in that. I certainly get a very different reaction from people when I carry the Hasselblad with the 50 Distagon and a bellows hood mounted! Obviously I'm not being trying to be sneaky and inconspicuous, and the gear is so obviously old-school and not digital that people seem to be more open minded.
 
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