BillBingham2
Registered User
That comment makes me wonder which of the Big 3 did you work for?
Service is just as critical as reliability, features and cost. I can not think of anything that keeps working forever without needing a bit of TLC from time to time. Has there any manufacturing line that has never turned out a lemon over say 20 years? How would you feel if you got that single lemon and just happen to get the lemon for the next 20 years that they sent you as your replacement for the first one?
I will never buy a Sony computer for the reason of service. Love many of their designs and ideas. But over in the US their service is way too poor for my needs.
B2 (;->
Service is just as critical as reliability, features and cost. I can not think of anything that keeps working forever without needing a bit of TLC from time to time. Has there any manufacturing line that has never turned out a lemon over say 20 years? How would you feel if you got that single lemon and just happen to get the lemon for the next 20 years that they sent you as your replacement for the first one?
I will never buy a Sony computer for the reason of service. Love many of their designs and ideas. But over in the US their service is way too poor for my needs.
B2 (;->
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
If not the Big 3, certainly that (former, I hope) mentality. SERVICE IS EVERYTHING. OK, if a product is pure cr@p, service is irrelevant. But if you do not see Through The Customer's Eyes, you will ultimately fail., no matter how good your product.
photogdave
Shops local
Just for the record, Canon does not consider the 5D to be a pro camera and they are not obliged to offer a CPS member a loaner for any other camera than a 1D series.
It doesn't mean they won't, but they are not obliged to.
Also, when I was news photographer I was unable to join NPS because Nikon didn't consider my equipment to be "professional" enough and because I didn't own enough of it.
emraphoto
Veteran
my friend, you are right... service has little to do with anything if you are busy photographing the kids, dog or the local county fair.
when you put cameras through the rigors of daily heavy, professional use service is EVERYTHING.
no offense is meant to the casual shooter of things mentioned above.
Jim Edmond
Member
Bill, I hope you'll reconsider. I've enjoyed and learned from your insights since reading the chapters you wrote the the Leica Manual decades ago. Why not at least keep a film M with B&W for personal or backup pro work?
photogdave
Shops local
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I just found a copy of that edition of the Leica Manual at my public library and am devouring it. Thank you!
William
William
victoriapio
Well-known
I have been fortunate with my M film cameras and did not buy an M8 until it had been debugged. So I have never had to send a camera, winder or lens to Leica for repair or even adjustment. While I cannot defend Leica's lack of QC (assuming the box wasn't dropped in shipping or somewhere along the way back to you), I would suggest a "cooling off" period before getting rid of the rangefinders. If you feel the same in a week or two, then by all means move forward.
I no longer drag myself around the world on assignments anymore but frankly, I have yet to find a camera I enjoy using like I do the M8. (I have a whole room full of canon DSLR equipment to sell you if you are choosing Canon for your work :^) and I have had to send in one Canon body to CPS for repair.) My photography - IMHO of couse - improves when I am behind a Leica - not so with DSLRs. So while I have much less to lose than you, I guess I would patiently wait for repair to be "re-repaired". I hope you reconsider and do the same. If not, keep clicking...
I no longer drag myself around the world on assignments anymore but frankly, I have yet to find a camera I enjoy using like I do the M8. (I have a whole room full of canon DSLR equipment to sell you if you are choosing Canon for your work :^) and I have had to send in one Canon body to CPS for repair.) My photography - IMHO of couse - improves when I am behind a Leica - not so with DSLRs. So while I have much less to lose than you, I guess I would patiently wait for repair to be "re-repaired". I hope you reconsider and do the same. If not, keep clicking...
pesphoto
Veteran
Bill, two words...YAshica GSN! Stay around
emraphoto
Veteran
they make a digital gsn?
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
What an amazing stream of nonsense. Castigating a guy who has been a working pro his entire long life for his decision to abandon a system that no longer meets his professional needs. Put your shiny unmarked Leicas back in the holster. Bill has done more with a camera in an average week than most of us will do in a lifetime. We're a bunch of poseurs. Bill is the real deal.
Good grief.
Good grief.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Castigating?
BillBingham2
Registered User
1A) Castigating. I and many of the folks here love to be challenged by, learn from and just read what Bill has to say. His experience is wonderful and the fact that he is willing to share his time, knowledge and thoughts with us is a wonderful blessing. I am asking that he not give up on RFF even though he has to switch to a non RF camera for his current work. I do not disagree with his choice of switching from Leica, heck I don't use any Ms any more and only have a IIIa and stuff I got from my father. Service is a very interesting topic and one that Leica needs some help with.
2A) I gave up trying to impress other people after my father died way too young. I live in what I like to call OZ-North. It aint real america and the folks here live to impress each other with cars, boats, houses, wives, everything they can buy. I hate parts of it, but others I really like. You may feel you are a poseur, but I am not. I'm still make pictures that I really like. On a good day other people like them too. On a bad day, not so much. And on a really bad day I get yelled at for spending money on film and processing. If you feel you are a poseur, please enjoy but don't drag me into the group. There are a lot of very talented people here. A lot of great and generous people. A lot of fun people who accept a poke now and then, some who challenge the norm, and a few jerks who come and go. I like them all and try to remember the old saying that you stand a lot taller on peoples shoulders than you do on their feet. I treat everyone with respect, even when I think their actions are less than honorable.
3A) DAAAHHHHHHHHHHH. Bill is daMan.
You know, one out of three ain't bad. Heck if your were batting for the Cubs they'd have a .333 hitter and might make it to a world series again. Too bad your on base percentage is so low.
B2 (;->
W
wlewisiii
Guest
OZ-North? I have to remember that one as the old "X sq miles surrounded by reality" gets a bit old.
That said, Bill, you're right on the money here. I could care less what he uses, I want him to keep posting here because what he has to _say_ helps me with my photography. I know I can use any help I can get :bang:
William
That said, Bill, you're right on the money here. I could care less what he uses, I want him to keep posting here because what he has to _say_ helps me with my photography. I know I can use any help I can get :bang:
William
BillBingham2
Registered User
William,
OZ-North does not go up even to the WI boarder. Northbook, Lake Forest, Lake Bluff, Glencoe, Glenview, that's the area I call OZ-North. I am looking for a job up in Madison, family and I would love to move up (in so many ways) there.
I too can learn a lot from Bill and have over the time he's been posting. The crazy idea of Stephen's to do Coffee with the Experts ROCKS. While I don't often agree with Roger, he does get me thinking an awful lot and to me, that's great.
Please accept my apologies to all up above the cheddar curtain.
Your Favorite FIB,
B2 (;->
OZ-North does not go up even to the WI boarder. Northbook, Lake Forest, Lake Bluff, Glencoe, Glenview, that's the area I call OZ-North. I am looking for a job up in Madison, family and I would love to move up (in so many ways) there.
I too can learn a lot from Bill and have over the time he's been posting. The crazy idea of Stephen's to do Coffee with the Experts ROCKS. While I don't often agree with Roger, he does get me thinking an awful lot and to me, that's great.
Please accept my apologies to all up above the cheddar curtain.
Your Favorite FIB,
B2 (;->
oftheherd
Veteran
You may have other reasons for wishing to leave the forums. If that is so, go in peace and return when you can. You will be missed.
But just because you aren't using an M8 or even any Leica is certainly no reason to leave the forums. You insights into photography are a valuable resource to all here. Whatever you choose to use we will all benifit from hearing how it works for you.
As others have said, there are many forums here and most all of us use more than one type of camera, including film and digital.
Please stay and share your knowledge and insights. At least try and stop by from time to time.
God bless.
But just because you aren't using an M8 or even any Leica is certainly no reason to leave the forums. You insights into photography are a valuable resource to all here. Whatever you choose to use we will all benifit from hearing how it works for you.
As others have said, there are many forums here and most all of us use more than one type of camera, including film and digital.
Please stay and share your knowledge and insights. At least try and stop by from time to time.
God bless.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Why do we have to pay for leicausa's mistake by losing you? C'mon, stay.
Welsh_Italian
Established
Hi Bill,
I haven't posted here in a long time - work, emigration (to New Zealand) and other real life issues have been in the way of my photography. Despite this, I still drop by to RFF to chill out and Bill, your posts are the ones I want to read the most because I find them educational. You write superbly and the knowledge you have is even better. I've learned a great deal from you and some of your thought-provoking posts really got me thinking about how I can be a better photographer. I guess I'm one of the many who reads but rarely contributes.
So thanks mate - really, thanks - and all the best.
And if you do want to come back to RFF and continue educating learners like myself, then I'll have no complaints.
I haven't posted here in a long time - work, emigration (to New Zealand) and other real life issues have been in the way of my photography. Despite this, I still drop by to RFF to chill out and Bill, your posts are the ones I want to read the most because I find them educational. You write superbly and the knowledge you have is even better. I've learned a great deal from you and some of your thought-provoking posts really got me thinking about how I can be a better photographer. I guess I'm one of the many who reads but rarely contributes.
So thanks mate - really, thanks - and all the best.
And if you do want to come back to RFF and continue educating learners like myself, then I'll have no complaints.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
I talked to Jeff Hirsch, who runs Fotocare, probably the camera store in NYC that maintains the closest relationship with the largest number of top pros and amateurs (often some really good photographers who make a lot more money in their day jobs as film directors, corporation heads, e.t.c.). Jeff’s opinion is valuable because he’s not only been shooting for a lifetime at the same time he has been dealing with camera companies, but he’s been gathering the experience of his customers. It’s an impressive knowledge base.
Our conversation has been extensive and not always flattering to Leitz. But in the end, it boils down to keep the M8 and start a piggy bank for the M9.
So, that’s one reason I’m staying on the Rangefinder Forum. I'm still a rangefinder shooter.
The other is you folks. The kind things you have said verge on the embarrassing and certainly overstate my contributions to the forum. But, who isn’t a sucker for that kind of flattery? Things are a little hectic now, but I’ll start a new thread this evening.
Bill
Our conversation has been extensive and not always flattering to Leitz. But in the end, it boils down to keep the M8 and start a piggy bank for the M9.
So, that’s one reason I’m staying on the Rangefinder Forum. I'm still a rangefinder shooter.
The other is you folks. The kind things you have said verge on the embarrassing and certainly overstate my contributions to the forum. But, who isn’t a sucker for that kind of flattery? Things are a little hectic now, but I’ll start a new thread this evening.
Bill
oftheherd
Veteran
Thank you Sir!!