Does water hardness need to be considered when developing film?

[Arjay]

I'm beginning just now with developing film - so forgive me a potentially stupid question:

Do I have to take into account the hardness of my tap water when developing film?

I live near the Alps, and our tap water comes directly from the mountains. Consequently we have very hard water. That's nice because it very quickly removes soap from my hands when washing, but it may influence chemical processes.

I need to use additives for my washing machine - but do I need to take water hardness into account for my film developing process? And if so, how? Or should I use demineralized water?

 

[Roger Hicks]

Not significantly: the variations you need to make in dev times will depend on so many other things that hardness is not important.

Hard water does however wash faster and better. Finish with a final wash in distilled/deionized water to obviate drying marks.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Arjay]

Wow - thank you for your quick reply.

Love this forum!

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I've got to disagree with the learned Mr. Hicks. I have lived in places where the hardness of the water had a profound effect on development with certain developers. E.g. Rodinol in Israel: don't try it. I would run a test roll of unimportant negatives to make sure. Even better: make it a speed test so you can fine tune your development to taken account the "so many other things" that Roger quite rightly states can have an effect on your results.

During a period in my life when I was moving around a lot, I did all my developing with distilled water as it was one way to eliminate some variables in the process (age and materials of pipes in the building, contaminants in the water supply, grit etc.). Still this is an expense many consider excessive -- once you run a few tests, you will have the answers for yourself. (No offense intended, Roger)

Ben Marks

 

[presspass]

We, too, have hard water. The only chemical this seems to affect is the developer, so I mix that with distilled water. Stop bath, fix, hypo eliminator all use water from our well. I don't know what the treatments in a public water supply, i.e. chlorine, will do to any of these chemicals.

 

[MartinP]

I would suspect that it is slight variations in water pH that cause any noticeable variation in film development, and this effect will also vary depending on the chemical design of the developer. The only way to make a baseline is to do it always with the same local water (and hope it is consistent) or maybe make up just the developer with demineralised water, as used in irons etc. Even then, all demineralised water is not created equally . . .

Personally, I am fortunate to have lived in the same place for periods of a decade or so, so I don't worry too much about different water sources.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

The chemistry in the water can indeed mess things up...I found that pre-soaking Neopan 400 in our house water (well water with something of an excess of hydrogen sulfide in it) would cause the emulsion to peel right off the base. I quit that practice pretty fast, I can tell you.

I always mix my chemicals with distilled water.

 

[newspaperguy]

Having lived in rural settings for the past 30 years or so (read: well water)
I use distilled water to mix all chemicals. It's cheap insurance.

 

[newspaperguy]

Whoops... like you said, Dude.

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

I live in an area with moderate hard water which often left me with drying marks on my negatives. I thought it was photo-flo causing the problems the whole time until I bought a water filter pitcher. When I used filtered water as the final soak the drying streaks went away.

As for developing film, the hardness of my local water is moderate so I have not noticed a significant difference between that or distilled water.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've got to disagree with the learned Mr. Hicks. I have lived in places where the hardness of the water had a profound effect on development with certain developers. E.g. Rodinol in Israel: don't try it. I would run a test roll of unimportant negatives to make sure. Even better: make it a speed test so you can fine tune your development to taken account the "so many other things" that Roger quite rightly states can have an effect on your results.

During a period in my life when I was moving around a lot, I did all my developing with distilled water as it was one way to eliminate some variables in the process (age and materials of pipes in the building, contaminants in the water supply, grit etc.). Still this is an expense many consider excessive -- once you run a few tests, you will have the answers for yourself. (No offense intended, Roger)

Ben Marks

Dear Ben,

No offence taken. The advice was based only on my experience and on the (somewhat narrow) base of theory propounded in the literature. It is entirely likely that hardness and pH will make a difference, even within the limits permitted by water purity standards if they are extreme enough (which I haven't encountered). Acid soft water off peat and granite (Scotland); neutral soft water (Plymouth); rainwater off the roof (Bermuda); hard alkaline water (where I live now); none has made much difference. Dunno what the water was like in Guadalupe, California, but that worked too.

As you say, the only answer is personal testing, and my own suspicion is that the other variables are at least as important: chemical choice, enlarger/scanner type, personal preference. Hence my advice, perhaps too sketchily given: try the standard times, and go from there. Or, indeed, use distilled/de-ionized water (except for washing).

Cheers,

R.

 

[Ronald M]

You just think hard water removes soap fast. It leaves a bunch of disolved minerals behind as you plumbing will show.
Where do the disolver minerals go when the water evaorates? I think you can figure it out.

Try some with both distilled water and mineral water and see what works. Most developers will be fine up to 20 grains hardness. Kodak adds "stuff" to counteract hardness in their powder. Others ??

I have had grain like golf balls with developer mixed with distilled water and it has happened to people I know also. We went back to Chicago water after one try. The shoots were a bust because of it. The Leica negs looked like they came from a 1950 Minox.

Softened well water is fine also. Chicago water is 7 grains hard. It is 8/10 by the time it gets to the suberbs. I mix developers with my home softened water without issue.

The real key here is a FULLl 1:200 photoflow or two distilled water final rinses with 6/10 drops of Photoflow per 250 ml.

Keep Photo Flow off plastic reels. Spray it on the hanging film if you have a plastic tank

 

[mackigator]

My tap water is fine with all the chemicals I've tried, but leaves mineral/water marks on the dried negatives. So now i mix my photo-flo with distilled water for that last soak, and everything is fine.

 

[ampguy]

I use only pure water (Reverse Osmosis), similar to distilled in PPM of impurities, but made pure in a different method than distilled, and it gives consistent results. Only need to vary time and temperature, the water is perfect, also leaves no negative stains, don't need hypo clearing agents, or not as much.