bmattock
Veteran
Of course I could be wrong. And monkeys might fly out of my butt. As to my nastiness, that's always justified.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Don't worry, I'm sure the shoe will come off that foot and hit you square in the head.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Not in the head ... lower.
gb hill
Veteran
From what I have found from another forum Agfa Gevaert has a film manufacturing plant in Belgium where they make motion picture films. Currently they are making the Rollei Retro 100 & 400 films. You can clearly see the Agfa Belgium logo on the box. The same films are also sold under the Maco name. The experation dates on existing stock are nearly run out so the new stock of Agfa films will be made here. The new color films from Agfa Vista will be made by Ferrania in Europe. Ferrania USA will only be the NA distributor of Agfa films.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Likely both. Two shoes ya know.
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bmattock
Veteran
Presuming this to be true, new Agfa Vista will simply be relabeled Ferrania Solaris. The two films could hardly be less alike; not to mention the fact that if anyone wants the craptastic Solaris, they can buy it now in the USA at Kroger grocery stores. Furthermore, Ferrania makes no slide film good or bad, so how now?
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Not so over here, Bill. I can only find Ferrania as single-use cameras. I for one would love to see that funky Solaris stuff make a reappearance as Agfa.
I have Vista 200 in one of my cameras now. From what I hear, it won't blow me away, or replace my steady diet of Walgreens and CVS branded Fuji. Now the slide film, that's indeed where it gets interesting, even if all that comes of it is some old stock -- for as you say, who'd be making it new?
bmattock
Veteran
Check your local grocery stores. In Michigan, Kroger's house brand says "Made in Italy" on it, which makes it Ferrania Solaris. I bought some to try it, and it is very nasty. However, some people have tried it an insisted the love the stuff - YMMV. In any case, it isn't Vista, and it isn't new production, so there is no 'good news' in this even if Ferrania is going to be relabeling Solaris as 'Vista'.
I was using Walgreen's 'Studio 35' film, which was Agfa Vista, for as long as it lasted, and I actually preferred it to everything except Kodak Gold 100. Again, YMMV.
And yes, slide film? Only Kodak and Fuji make slide film now. There are no new slide film manufacturers, and no new factories, so I find all this speculation rather amusing.
Steve M.
Veteran
It's not real Agfa film. Used it myself and has terrible grain and crappy colors. I seldom shoot color but when I do it will have to be Fuji. Their NPS 160 is pretty good.
bmattock
Veteran
What's not real Agfa film? The Walgreens Studio 35 film was definitely Agfa. They no longer stock it, so I don't know what it is now.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Bill, what enrages you so about other people's wishful thinking? I certainly see the value of a skeptical voice in these discussions, but why get so bent out of shape over a bit of hope? We've seen some nice pipe dreams turn into realities (M9, Ektar film, Nikon rangefinder reissues, a super-fast M-mount 50 for the price of a crappy used car), it's not insane to think that perhaps other good things are possible.
bmattock
Veteran
I am not enraged. I'm not even miffed. Why would I be? I speak directly, plainly, and clearly. This is often mistaken for anger. I wish it were not the case, but it is.
I'm not bent out of shape, but let's talk about 'hope' for a moment.
Hope is something that might happen. Hope has at least a slight possibility of being true. Hope is good. The "Impossible Project" is something deserving of hope; it might happen. The chances against it are high, but it has a basis in reality and it might succeed. I wish it well. You have not seen me posting "It will never happen, so STFU, morons" with regard to this project on RFF, have you?
False hope, on the other hand, is evil. False hope is what encourages people to pick their heads up, and then smashes them with the hammer of reality. False hope hurts people, it does not help them.
This "Agfa is back" thread (like the others before it on RFF) represents false hope.
It is insane to think that things which have no basis in reality are going to happen. I might win the lottery; it is not unrealistic to hope for such an unlikely occurrence; but I did buy a ticket. If I do not buy a ticket, I cannot win the lottery; hoping that I win would be foolish.
Agfa is bankrupt. There are no new factories being built. Lupus is and has been engaged in the business of distributing left-over Agfa film for some time now, and there is no reason to believe they have magically built a film factory to recreate the films that could not support AgfaPhoto in 2004/5. If they purchase and relabel films from other manufacturers, that is not new film, nor is it 'Agfa Vista' or what-have-you. It does not increase the options available to film photographers, only the labels on boxes.
For what it is worth, I have attempted to contact Lupus and Ferrania USA on this issue, and have received no reply. This is the same reply I received the last time I asked them these questions a year or so ago when the last "Agfa film is back" breathless pronouncement was posted on RFF. With no reply from the main actors, no news in the photographic industry channels, and no evidence of anything having changed whatsoever besides a carefully-worded press release, I am left to believe this is hokum, old wine in new bottles, to twist a phrase slightly. It is quite similar to the LAST Lupus press release about Agfa film, and we see what that has resulted in - nothing.
Therefore on what basis should one pin their hope?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Walgreens studio 35 is made in Japan now and is generally assumed to be Fuji Film. I've shot it and the negs do look like Fuji (same typeface used on the edge marks, same barcodes for printer channels as Fuji's amateur 35mm films)
bmattock
Veteran
If it says it is made in Japan, it can only be Fuji.
Sanders McNew
Rolleiflex User
I find it amusing that you appear less sceptical of the
Impossible Project returning Polaroid to market, than
you are of Adox's plans to return APX to market. The
Impossible Project is a start-up, with no track record,
no access to a lot of the critical patents, trying to
reverse-engineer a lost product whose components
are no longer manufactured. Adox, by contrast, is
an established manufacturer of analog photographic
products; they own the IP for APX; they and Inoviscoat
own much of the original Agfa confectioning and
coating equipment; they've hired the key Agfa
employees to oversee their efforts; and they've
already succeeded in the hardest part of the effort --
restoring the Agfa papers to the market.
So, why hope for an Impossible Project while
dismissing Adox's much more established efforts
as "pie in the sky"?
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Actually gearing up for production of another film would seem to be folly now. There is no way, if it requires an investment, that bringing another B&W film to market is going to be profitable. Despite the hopes and dreams of many folks on RFF, the film market is, what there is left of it, declining (at least, that's what Kodak's and Fuji's financials show, regardless of anecdotes that film is rising again). At best, it only makes sense if this is simply relabeled film.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
OK, not anger--withering condescension, maybe? You are perhaps trying to burst the bubble with, shall we say, excessive gusto? If you think the return of this film is unlikely, let us down gently. Just remember there was a time when nobody could have imagined the return of Voigtlander rangefinders, Moog synthesizers, or Indian motorcycles. (AFAIK, aficionados may question the authenticity of the latter, but whatever.)
It's Christmastime! Let the sugarplums dance in our heads, eh?
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Speaking directly and being carelessly insulting are not the same.
bmattock
Veteran
I have no thoughts about Adox with reference to APX; my comments about 'hope' have to do with statements in this thread about Agfa restarting production of Vista or even slide film. In other words, the press release, which said nothing about Adox as a manufacturer of film for them.
I may doubt Adox's ability to recreate APX, and I would consider it unlikely, but not 'hopeless'. New slide film? Hopeless. Agfa rising from the ashes? Won't happen.
bmattock
Veteran
I did not claim not to be insulting, or even polite. I said I was not angry.