Why no Zeiss Digital Rangefinder in 2010?

[eleskin]

I remember Zeiss said they would make one when the technology would be there. The M9 has proven the future is here today. I just spoke to Zeiss USA and they told me they do not know anything about a digital, and they are just concerned with lenses, not Digital solutions. So will the M9 be the only game in town for some time, or is there something big coming that we do not know about. I really like the Zeiss design, and it is too bad there is not a digital version of the camera yet. I would seriously consider buying one if one would be made.

 

[Paddy C]

This had been flogged to death on the forum.

The rumor is that Zeiss will certainly not be building a digital rangefinder. Ever. And that they will be supplying a new line of lenses for a Sony M4/3 competitor (ie a Sony EVIL).

 

[eleskin]

Very sad indeed

Very sad indeed

I have been using film all of my photo life (since 1986), from 35mm to 4x5 and I have to say the M8 I have has shown me I can have medium format quality in a small package. I drifted away from 35mm in the 1990's (Leica M6) because I became attracted to the quality of medium format (GSW 690) and got tired of the limitations of the small 35mm Negative. My M lenses started to collect dust in the closet for years, that is until the M8, which became essentially my Digital GSW 690!!!! Yes, it has that kind of quality, and the size of the camera much better!!! And now the M9 is blowing me away, but I cannot afford it yet.
Zeiss is making super optics (really, we have to thank Mr. Kobayashi for this as well). I have friends that shoot Nikon and Canon that think the Zeiss 50mm and wide angle offerings run circles around what Canon and Nikon are selling (junk if you ask me, at least in prime lenses, not zooms).
So to only have one body in the world that is digital will over time make rangefinder users less and less common. Film is great (I was really hard core) but there is no getting away from the progress anymore. I see it in the classes I teach (I teach Darkroom and Digital). About 2 years ago, a tremendous drop in interest in the darkroom, not gone totally, but a drop.
So here, Zeiss if they do not want to play ball, is in denial. A $4,000 full frame digital Zeiss would be a hot item indeed, and it would be better for Leica to keep their ass in gear as well. Capitalism is about competition and so is good product development!! You cannot get away from it.
So Zeiss had better listen and watch out. There are rumors Nikon is up to something in M mount. Maybe this is true, maybe not, but someone who wants to make money will build a non Leica full frame digital rangefinder and sell them like crazy at a lower price. If Zeiss doesnt get it someone else will! A pitty!!!!

 

[bwcolor]

Please stop these posts. Zeiss needs to make a profit.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

There is simply no viable market for another digital RF. I can't understand folks wanting Nikon or Zeiss to develop one. Splitting up a tiny niche market would be the nail in Leica's coffin.

 

[maddoc]

There is simply no viable market for another digital RF. I can't understand folks wanting Nikon or Zeiss to develop one. Splitting up a tiny niche market would be the nail in Leica's coffin.

No, they (Leica) would sell more of their fantastic lenses. 🙂

 

[wgerrard]

...Zeiss if they do not want to play ball, is in denial. A $4,000 full frame digital Zeiss would be a hot item indeed...
So Zeiss had better listen and watch out...

Zeiss might make money selling a lot of things. I suspect they have concluded they'll get a better return with lenses.

Sooner or later, probably sooner, someone will introduce a mirrorless digital and lens collection that will gobble up much of the DRF market.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

"No, they (Leica) would sell more of their fantastic lenses."

Maybe, but it would almost assure there would be no M10.

 

[eleskin]

Death of Leica? No way!!!

Death of Leica? No way!!!

We are talking about capitalism here. Leica will be fine. They may have to lower some prices, but their build quality will always be second to none, and their products will always maintain a higher value long term.

As for profit, If I and many others bought a Zeiss digital, would that not be better for their bottom line?

Even people who want and own Leica may consider a Zeiss as a second body.

Some people own one expensive car, and have cheaper cars to run around in, especially in risky situations. Here, spending $4K makes more sense than $7K.

Finally, this is the year 2010, not the year we just discovered movie film can be used in a camera for bigger photos! I love film, but times have changed. Time to get with the program Zeiss and others!

By the way, I was showing my M8 to people at my local Camera Club (Bethlehem Pa) and even with their DSLR's they were all fascinated by my M8 and fast lenses (they wanted one once they held the camera, fallng in love?). So even with all of the bells and whistles, multi function dials, etc,,,, there is an appreciation for the more traditional designs, and the classic rangefinder is the KING of traditionalist design. They all thought it was refreshing to see my camera. If there was a less expensive M mount digital, as sexy looking as the Zeiss, I am sure many of these people I know would buy or consider it.

 

[maddoc]

21/1.4 ASPH, 24/1.4 ASPH, 50/0.95 ASPH, 50/1.4 ASPH, 35/1.4 ASPH, 90/2.0 APO ... seem to sell very good and would work mostly probably with a digital ZI. 😉

Not at those prices. 😉

 

[Neare]

Whoo another "Why not" thread...

I don't really mind either way if they do or don't.

I just spoke to Zeiss USA and they told me they do not know anything about a digital, and they are just concerned with lenses, not Digital solutions.

Though, if they were, I don't think they would just be telling people. And I doubt that every person who works on some desk for Zeiss would know either.

Finally, this is the year 2010, not the year we just discovered movie film can be used in a camera for bigger photos! I love film, but times have changed. Time to get with the program Zeiss and others!

Go buy some Velvia 50.
And them some Velvia 50 in 120..
And them some in 8x10...

Times are changing, but there is still quite some time to go for the little Digital Sensor. 😉

 

[wgerrard]

As for profit, If I and many others bought a Zeiss digital, would that not be better for their bottom line?

Sure, and if Zeiss made cheeseburgers and enough people bought them, they'd make some money, too.

The point, which seems to escape many of us, is that Zeiss has a choice of many things to make or not make. If it is trying to maximize its profit, it will make products that do that.

 

[bmattock]

Sure, and if Zeiss made cheeseburgers and enough people bought them, they'd make some money, too.

The point, which seems to escape many of us, is that Zeiss has a choice of many things to make or not make. If it is trying to maximize its profit, it will make products that do that.

Not to mention the oft-heard quote, "Play to your strengths." Zeiss was once known for great cameras, but nowadays, they make lenses and other equipment, not so much cameras. Even their film rangefinder was a rebadged Cosina.

 

[Keith]

Pickett nailed it IMO ... splitting up a niche market could spell death for Leica in the DRF arena and would be a foollhardy financial venture on Zeiss's part.

For Zeiss (or anyone) to consider such a move they would have to be assuming that they could sell cameras on their own merits against DSLR's ... not just clobber Leica's meagre customer base! Even at $4000.00 why would anyone entering the world of serious digital photography consider a DRF and it's limitations when cameras Like the D700 can be had for half the price?

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Now you are in trouble, Keith. Suggesting that RF's have limitations will surely bring a hailstorm upon you! 😉

 

[Keith]

Now you are in trouble, Keith. Suggesting that RF's have limitations will surely bring a hailstorm upon you! 😉

Well Pickett ... the reality is that heading potential M9 customers off at the pass is not going to make much money for anyone ... there's just plain not enough of them and folks who can't see that need to remove their rose coloured glasses! 😀

I suspect that Leica have got the DRF market for as long as they want it and at whatever price they feel they can gouge from their loyal customers ... and why not! They put all the groundwork in to finally produce a decent full frame DRF after all!

 

[watchyourbackgrounds]

Leica won't be killed off. The Z1 didn't kill the M7 or any other Leicas. I bought a Z1 and THEN an M4-P...and people who want a Leica will get it. Leica is an emotional purchase as much as a practical one. MORE so. And always will be. That's not to say it's not super, even the best. But Leica makes better gear than the photographers who buy it are photographers, and part of the appeal, for some, IS the high price. Maybe not YOU reading this now, but for some, sure.
I think the popularity of the DRF, the M8-9, will compel somebody to make one that's half or 2/3 the cost of the M-9. Maybe Zeiss, maybe Voigt, and you can't even go by what they say now. Imagine the questions they'd get every day if the admitted to working on it.
No--it'll happen.
And not everybody reading this thread has read it all, so no need to jump on eleskin 'bout that. Just skip the posts, click away, but don't scold. See what it's like to be scolded? Bugsya.

 

[back alley]

Pickett nailed it IMO ... splitting up a niche market could spell death for Leica in the DRF arena and would be a foollhardy financial venture on Zeiss's part.

For Zeiss (or anyone) to consider such a move they would have to be assuming that they could sell cameras on their own merits against DSLR's ... not just clobber Leica's meagre customer base! Even at $4000.00 why would anyone entering the world of serious digital photography consider a DRF and it's limitations when cameras Like the D700 can be had for half the price?

don't you have an m8?

 

[jarski]

Cosina makes several film cameras and lenses for this niche market, perhaps they're more interested of fitting a sensor to their Bessa, than Zeiss would ?

they also have manufacturing ability and everything needed to get things going, after new technologies such camera sensors become affordable enough.

full frame Bessa R5D, 2010, USD2500 ? 🙄

 

[Pickett Wilson]

If you look at the price of the Bessa range of cameras, you'll see why Cosina won't likely venture into digital. Their success with film RF's is related to the price (and good quality at a price). Even a value priced really good digital RF is going to cost several times their current successful price point. That would have them selling their DRF into even a smaller niche then the one they currently sell the Bessas into. That doesn't strike me as one of Cosina's strengths.