Help! Leica's poisonus effect.

[edmelvins]

Hi guys,

I'm a casual traveler and I have a D700 w/ a couple of lenses which I'm planning to sell. The thing is, since I've been wanting a leica M, I thought that I'd use the money to buy one. But this means I won't have a digital camera anymore except a Canon P&S.

Is it really wise to convert 100% from digital to film? I know the consequences I will face in the future but as much as I love digital, I need Leica's simplicity and film's superiority in several ways. The D700 is way too big and heavy for me to carry around since I often travel to small villages.

I really need suggestions from experts on this matter.
FYI, I think I'll get the M6 and only one lens which may be a 35mm..

Thanks!

 

[Boniface XIII]

I love tales like this! Get rid of that thing and discover the joy of the M (though I'd point you to an M2).

 

[edmelvins]

I love tales like this! Get rid of that thing and discover the joy of the M (though I'd point you to an M2).

Hi,

Another reason I'm going to sell the D700 is, I'm annoyed by the fact that its price has been going downhill since I bought it last year. What a waste!

Anyway, it's very hard to find older leicas such as the M2 and M4 in my country(even though the M3 is quite popular). Even if you find it, the price will be very high.

I chose the M6 because of its TTL capability. As I've said before, I often travel to small villages where electricity is a very scarce thing and I'd have to use flashes to take pictures.

Also, I'm wearing a thick glasses and couldn't live without it. Do you know if this camera is suitable for me?

 

[August Derleth]

You're "annoyed because the price is going down"?

You don't know if you want a D700 or a film Leica?

You wear thick glasses and don't know if you need AF?

You're comparing completely different tools that were created for different purposes. I think you have no idea what end result you want from your photography, so you're creating fictitious and preposterous comparisons in your mind.

The D700 is a superb instrument which is suitable for a wide range of conditions where a Leica M6 would not be a first choice.

The M6 loaded with film is also something which is not really comparable to a D700 in any way.

Your thought processes and knowledge of photography need to be expanded, not your collection of cameras.

 

[MartinP]

You will probably have difficulty seeing the 28mm lines with glasses on, but the 35mm frame should be ok. A thyristor type automatic-flash would work for you, especially with a simple sync-cord so that you can move it away from the camera a bit - this will mean that you can look for an M6 as well as an M6TTL. See if you can justify lithium AA batteries for the flash, they will last much longer and help keep your kit less bulky.

A small, light point-and-shoot digital camera can go along with you too of course and (with a solid camera support) even a video-mode might see some use. Hopefully you have one of the models which still takes AA's then you can get a few sets and a solar-charger, or use lithiums again, to avoid electricity supply problems.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

The Leica M9 is digital and has had extremely good reviews but it is expensive. As for film cameras the M6 is an excellent buy it goes for around $1200. The older M lenses will work with the M9 and the newer coded lenses will work with the M6. As far as prices are concerned digital cameras drop fast as newer models are introduced while older Leicas have stabilized. As far as weight goes many photographers, myself included, opted out of the larger cameras for exactily the same reason...weight. A Leica M in hand and 2 additional lenses in an over the shoulder bag is very light. The downside, if this is one, is with film you will find yourself more selective with shots and shoot less. The other issue is confidence. With a digital the photographer is constantly checking the screen to see if he got the shot. With film you will develope a deeper understanding of DOF and exposure. And, because you can not check each photo after it is taken you will develope more confidence in your ability. After shooting film if you go back to digital you will not feel the need to check each image after it is taken.

 

[edmelvins]

You're "annoyed because the price is going down"?

You don't know if you want a D700 or a film Leica?

You wear thick glasses and don't know if you need AF?

You're comparing completely different tools that were created for different purposes. I think you have no idea what end result you want from your photography, so you're creating fictitious and preposterous comparisons in your mind.

The D700 is a superb instrument which is suitable for a wide range of conditions where a Leica M6 would not be a first choice.

The M6 loaded with film is also something which is not really comparable to a D700 in any way.

Your thought processes and knowledge of photography need to be expanded, not your collection of cameras.

I'm annoyed but it's not the only reason.

I've been wanting a Leica M, since I don't have huge amount of money, I'm only limited to one choice. Thus, I need suggestions.

Manual focusing is no problem for me. I've been using Nikon F2 for a long time. The thick glasses information is only to decide what VF magnification suits me best.

Yes, I'm aware of the situation and I haven't stopped thinking for myself either.

I couldn't agree more on your last sentence. But, as I've stated before, I'm on a limited budget. And I've been on that situation since I got into photography. So, a collection of cameras is what I don't have.

Thus, I really need to think hard on this one to prevent future regrets.

Thank you for your inputs. I appreciate it.

 

[ruby.monkey]

Another reason I'm going to sell the D700 is, I'm annoyed by the fact that its price has been going downhill since I bought it last year. What a waste!

How can it be a waste, unless you never use it? Digital SLRs have never been an investment except as a tool to use until they wear out (or become obsolete).

 

[Renzsu]

You may want to get a Bessa camera if you're afraid of blowing all your money on a film camera.. you'll still be able to use Leica glass if you would want to. The Leica bodies are really nice, but won't have much influence on the look of the final image.. it's the glass and film you choose that are more important.

 

[edmelvins]

You will probably have difficulty seeing the 28mm lines with glasses on, but the 35mm frame should be ok. A thyristor type automatic-flash would work for you, especially with a simple sync-cord so that you can move it away from the camera a bit - this will mean that you can look for an M6 as well as an M6TTL. See if you can justify lithium AA batteries for the flash, they will last much longer and help keep your kit less bulky.

A small, light point-and-shoot digital camera can go along with you too of course and (with a solid camera support) even a video-mode might see some use. Hopefully you have one of the models which still takes AA's then you can get a few sets and a solar-charger, or use lithiums again, to avoid electricity supply problems.

Do you mean on the M6's VF? If so, thank you for the information because I thought I'd get the 28mm instead of the 35mm. Yeah, I have had several troubles with electricity supply. I think I'll take your advice. Thank you Martin!

 

[edmelvins]

How can it be a waste, unless you never use it? Digital SLRs have never been an investment except as a tool to use until they wear out (or become obsolete).

I agree. Believe me my D700 has been on tough trips recently which makes the price goes even lower.

You may want to get a Bessa camera if you're afraid of blowing all your money on a film camera.. you'll still be able to use Leica glass if you would want to. The Leica bodies are really nice, but won't have much influence on the look of the final image.. it's the glass and film you choose that are more important.

Hi Renzsu,

I have just browsed your photo gallery. Great photos!
Anyway, I used to own a R3 and the reason why I sold it is because of the VF 1:1. It's very hard for me to compose since I wear glasses. But I think I can get the R2 instead. We'll see.

The Leica M9 is digital and has had extremely good reviews but it is expensive. As for film cameras the M6 is an excellent buy it goes for around $1200. The older M lenses will work with the M9 and the newer coded lenses will work with the M6. As far as prices are concerned digital cameras drop fast as newer models are introduced while older Leicas have stabilized. As far as weight goes many photographers, myself included, opted out of the larger cameras for exactily the same reason...weight. A Leica M in hand and 2 additional lenses in an over the shoulder bag is very light. The downside, if this is one, is with film you will find yourself more selective with shots and shoot less. The other issue is confidence. With a digital the photographer is constantly checking the screen to see if he got the shot. With film you will develope a deeper understanding of DOF and exposure. And, because you can not check each photo after it is taken you will develope more confidence in your ability. After shooting film if you go back to digital you will not feel the need to check each image after it is taken.

M9 is out of my list. I'd have to sell my only car in order to buy that camera.
That's exactly why I've been longing for an M. It's the portability and simplicity.
I agree. Maybe I could learn more about photography by trying to find the benefits of a film camera.

 

[Disaster_Area]

Well... I can speak from experience... When I picked up my Bessa R3A about a year ago I stopped using my 50D for pretty much everything but paying gigs... I picked up an M2 a few months ago and now I barely pick up my R3A. All three cameras are superb machines... but the Leica really makes you WANT to take pictures even when there's nothing worth shooting. I don't know what it is... but there's just something that makes you want to find something else to snap... just be able to feel the frame advance one more time

I wear glasses as well and I would definately recommend the M2... I find the viewfinder in my R3A difficult at times even for the 50mm lines... the 40mm lines are completely out of my field of view when wearing glasses. I like the M2 viewfinder so much I'm thinking trading my R3A for an R2A which has similar magnification... or just trading towards another M2

 

[MartinP]

Hi again edmelvins, I just double-checked the magnification on my 'standard' M6 and it is 0,72. The 28mm lines are really at the edge of what I can see, and I don't have glasses, so I think that might be a problem for you. If it is alright to have to move your eye around a bit then they are still there for you to use though, so it could be useful in the future.

There is a lot of useful information on the Cameraquest website at this link.

 

[degruyl]

I am just going to mention that I own a perfectly good digital SLR kit that I no longer use. Have not picked it up in a year (actually, close to two now).

In that year: I have probably shot (easily) hundreds of rolls of 35mm, 120 and ~100 sheets of 4x5 (but that is only two months old). It has certainly been the most photographically productive year of my life. Or one of.

What I am trying to say is that, depending on how you shoot you may not even notice that you don't have a digital camera. Especially if you still have an SLR lying around for telephoto work.

 

[maddoc]

If you were thick eye-glasses and want to use a 35mm FL lens and like TTL flash metering then the M6TTL with a 0.58x VF might be perfect for you. If you need additionally AE, the M7 with 0.58x VF will do the job very good.

 

[edmelvins]

I am just going to mention that I own a perfectly good digital SLR kit that I no longer use. Have not picked it up in a year (actually, close to two now).

In that year: I have probably shot (easily) hundreds of rolls of 35mm, 120 and ~100 sheets of 4x5 (but that is only two months old). It has certainly been the most photographically productive year of my life. Or one of.

What I am trying to say is that, depending on how you shoot you may not even notice that you don't have a digital camera. Especially if you still have an SLR lying around for telephoto work.

We can discuss about how film and digital have a huge effect psychologically but I think this is not the right thread for it.
Anyway, thank you for the inspiration and suggestion.

Hi again edmelvins, I just double-checked the magnification on my 'standard' M6 and it is 0,72. The 28mm lines are really at the edge of what I can see, and I don't have glasses, so I think that might be a problem for you. If it is alright to have to move your eye around a bit then they are still there for you to use though, so it could be useful in the future.

There is a lot of useful information on the Cameraquest website at this link.

Hi,

Thanks for the heads-up. Then it should be a problem for me since I don't want to waste time on the VF too long because I might miss another moment. Then, the 35mm it is!
Thank you for the link.

If you were thick eye-glasses and want to use a 35mm FL lens and like TTL flash metering then the M6TTL with a 0.58x VF might be perfect for you. If you need additionally AE, the M7 with 0.58x VF will do the job very good.

Nah, the M7 is too expensive for me. If I get the M6, I'll have some change and I can use it to travel more instead.

I'll consider the 0.58x. Thanks maddoc.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

You sound like you just decided to get a new camera.

If batteries and power are a concern, you can always buy the MB-D10 battery pack. It comes with a tray that takes AA batteries. That way you can carry your power in two ways (I do): with the Nikon EN-EL3 battery and with AA cells (it takes 8 and increases the fps speed from 5 to 8).

If I were you, I'd save for the Leica instead of sacrificing the D700. They're not exclusive machines; they can coexist. I know it because I have both types, and use them regularly.

Act in haste, repent in leisure... Not a good idea. Just keep the D700 and explore what it is to use a rangefinder with a Bessa or a Canonet or some such thing.

 

[coelacanth]

Are you planning to use the Leica (or whichever/whatever the main camera you are going to decide) other than travel/snap/street stuff? There are things RF works much better, and things SLR does better job either digital or film.

Also do you like dealing with film (developing, scanning, printing etc)?

I asked these questions to myself, and now I use Leica Ms for most of time, some OM for where SLR shines, Medium format and other film cams only for specific projects. But for some people, rangefinder is just not going to work because of their requirements.

Also if you do like processing film/photos analogue way, that would be another reason to switch or at least "expand" to film camera. I realized that, as hobby, I just have interest in film photography including processing and darkroom stuff, not much so towards digital photography so the choice became pretty obvious over time.

I don't know if getting rid of D700 before you make sure you'll be happy with RF/Leica system is the best idea. You can safely buy and sell used Leica or even Bessa without losing much of money if later you decide to resell, but DSLR won't be the case. If you can live without the money worth of one used Leica M kit (body and a lens) for a month or two, give it a try while you hold on to the D700. If you think you like Leica system (RF vs SLR & Film vs Digital), then sell the D700, if you decide otherwise, you can sell the Leica kit w/o losing money.

 

[emraphoto]

or scan one and start your edits while the next is scanning. doing nothing is cool too.

 

[hellomikmik]

There is also path 3 which i'm currently exploring. My situation was almost the same few months ago, d700 + some lenses. Then I realized that I won't carry it with me all the time so it won't be my everyday "diary" tool. So I got used Zeiss Ikon for good price + one lens.

Now what to do with the film? Rolls I can develop myself but no place for enlarger and all the stuff. So I got the PN-11 extension tube for nikon and I'm trying to shoot the negatives with makro lens on d700 in 1:1 magnifications. D700 became a film camera. I don't think the quality will compare with the best scanners out there but once you set it up, 1 film frame takes 1 second to "scan" (depending on shutter speed).

Than it's easy, just put it into Mac hit "ctrl+alt+cmd+!" key and a negative becomes a positive and I can play with all the slides in Aperture to adjust the image - they just work in the opposite way.

I'm very surprised in difference of tonality between digital and film.

Don't sell d700, just get a proper lens for it - like ZF makro planar 50/2.