hipsterdufus
Photographer?
Wow, so I've been reading about LTM lenses, trying to find some cheap, decent ones for my Bessa R2. As I've been looking for these lenses, I keep noticing that the Contax/Kiev equivalent of the LTM lens goes for about half the price of the LTM lens. This is all leading me to wonder if I made the right choice going to Leica mount. It seems that I could get a well-sorted Kiev 4 w/ Jupiter 8, 9, and 12 lenses for about $300 from fedka.com. What are the downsides to going with a Kiev and these lens choices as compared to my Bessa R2? I keep on finding myself getting sticker shock whenever I find a Leica lens that I want...
This is more of a theoretical thread than anything else. I think if my wife finds me swapping cameras again, the hospital will probably be the best that I can hope for... :angel:
This is more of a theoretical thread than anything else. I think if my wife finds me swapping cameras again, the hospital will probably be the best that I can hope for... :angel:
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
yes, I understand you... my wife is at her Tae Kwon Do a.t.m.
;-)
;-)
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Nothing wrong with a Kiev if it is in good order. Since, however, you are probably familiar by now with the R2, it might make sense to stick with it.
regularchickens
Well-known
The differences are mostly obvious conveniences, like film loading and winding, and the maybe not-so-obvious, like parallax-corrected framelines (the Kiev has none). The latter is a biggie if you shoot up close a lot with 50mm or longer lenses. I'm having to deal with that myself, coming from an M2 to a Kiev-4 and FED-2.
Prices on J-8s are not hugely different between LTM and Kiev mounts, but it does seem as though it might be easier to get a nice one in Kiev mount. However, if you want a double-gauss 50mm, a Helios-108 is much cheaper than any of the LTM Planar-formulas.
I would recommend sticking with the R2 and picking up nice, inexpensive LTM lenses as you can find them.
Prices on J-8s are not hugely different between LTM and Kiev mounts, but it does seem as though it might be easier to get a nice one in Kiev mount. However, if you want a double-gauss 50mm, a Helios-108 is much cheaper than any of the LTM Planar-formulas.
I would recommend sticking with the R2 and picking up nice, inexpensive LTM lenses as you can find them.
hipsterdufus
Photographer?
Isn't that an oxymoron?
I think I'll probably just wait to get a Canon 50mm f1.8 (they seem to go for about $150-$200 for a really good one). However, there's a biting part of me that says I should only buy the "real" Leica stuff, which means spending at least $300 for a decent 50mm. I'm really wary of the focusing issues that a lot of FSU lenses seem to have on non-FSU bodies, so I've ruled those out.
I was just browsing through this forum when I saw fedka.com mentioned and I priced out the Kiev kit. For the price of a decent (but slow) Leica 50mm lens, I could have the whole kit (or so I thought to myself) and everything would be relatively well-matched. It was just a thought I briefly entertained and I figured I'd let you guys talk me out of it. Of course, in an ideal world, I'd have both...
Armoured
Well-known
Stick with what you have unless you're in love with the Kievs. There is much greater variety of lenses, including modern, available in leica-compatible mounts (with adapters or without). The sheer number of Leica mount bodes available also gives you more options later on.
The one caveat I'd put on this is for the Kiev/Contax's Jupiter 9 (85 mm f2). The leica thread mount versions seem less tolerant of different bodies, and the Kievs have a longer baselength. But a decent Kiev body plus this lens could be worth having just for using that lens, if you find a good one.
The one caveat I'd put on this is for the Kiev/Contax's Jupiter 9 (85 mm f2). The leica thread mount versions seem less tolerant of different bodies, and the Kievs have a longer baselength. But a decent Kiev body plus this lens could be worth having just for using that lens, if you find a good one.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
With a Kiev or Contax, you will need an accessory finder for anything other than 50mm. Add this to the price of the Kiev set before you compare. And of course you will never have framelines, combined RF/VF (except for 50), TTL metering...
In other words, this is just not a fair comparison. I love my Contax, it does everything I need and will outlive me, but feature-wise it's a far cry from a CV Bessa. Now, if you could swap your R2 for an R2C, that's another story. The lower cost of Contax versus LTM (not to mention M!) lenses does come into play then.
In other words, this is just not a fair comparison. I love my Contax, it does everything I need and will outlive me, but feature-wise it's a far cry from a CV Bessa. Now, if you could swap your R2 for an R2C, that's another story. The lower cost of Contax versus LTM (not to mention M!) lenses does come into play then.
julio1fer
Well-known
I have a Kiev 4M with Helios-44, J-12, J-9 and J-11, as well as several LTM Soviet bodies and lenses (Zorki 4 and 6, Fed 3 and 5; J-8, J-12, J-9, I-61 and I-50). I've used all of them. It all started with trying to get a J-12 for my Leica IIIa, then one thing led to another.
I find the ergonomics of the LTM models friendlier. The Kiev seems a better-made camera, but the design and handling seem strange coming from the LTM bodies (for instance, the Contax grip). You can get used to the Kiev, so it is mostly a practice problem.
In my samples Kiev lenses are marginally better than the LTM types, especially the J-9 which is excellent in Kiev mount and just tolerable in LTM. The J-12 are both good, and the 50mm lenses are all stunning, with different personalities. As you know, Soviet lens quality may vary. I find that Kiev lenses are usually less tampered with.
I would not recommend starting into a new system unless you are collecting, or dissatisfied with your current equipment. Maybe it is better to invest those dollars on film, or in a nice new lens for your LTM bodies!
I find the ergonomics of the LTM models friendlier. The Kiev seems a better-made camera, but the design and handling seem strange coming from the LTM bodies (for instance, the Contax grip). You can get used to the Kiev, so it is mostly a practice problem.
In my samples Kiev lenses are marginally better than the LTM types, especially the J-9 which is excellent in Kiev mount and just tolerable in LTM. The J-12 are both good, and the 50mm lenses are all stunning, with different personalities. As you know, Soviet lens quality may vary. I find that Kiev lenses are usually less tampered with.
I would not recommend starting into a new system unless you are collecting, or dissatisfied with your current equipment. Maybe it is better to invest those dollars on film, or in a nice new lens for your LTM bodies!
fuji645
Established
Bought a Kiev III with the Jupiter 8 a few months ago for about $50 for a novelty. Works well, no dings or dents and very clean. Slow speeds a bit off but otherwise not bad. Very well made. Viewfinder is dim by modern standards and focusing takes getting used to (it's opposite to Leica). Don't have a Bessa but have an M3 with 50 2.8 Elmar. Kiev's a good shooter but no match for modern cameras. Buy one for fun and try to find a stateside seller--not too sure about buying from the Ukraine. Good luck
David Murphy
Veteran
The R2 is an outstanding camera - I'd certainly not give one up for a Kiev. You can find basic Leica thread mount lenses (Japanese and German) for instance, starting at around $100 and up - most of these work well, look good and are well made. They hold their value well too (and in fact go up). Used M mount lenses start at around $250 (the collapsible Summicron 50/2 and Elmar 50/2.8 are probably the cheapest, but both fabulous performers).
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
My advice would be to keep wondering about the Kievs and keep the Bessa.
IMO the viewfinder of the Kiev (I have a Kiev II) is pitiful and after using a Bessa would seem even more so!
IMO the viewfinder of the Kiev (I have a Kiev II) is pitiful and after using a Bessa would seem even more so!
konicaman
konicaman
Welcome to the forum!
Hmm...just wondering: How many pairs of shoes does your wife own and how often does she "need" a new pair?
Happy shooting
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
You could also get Amadeo's Contax-Leica adapter for $250 and use all those excellent Contax and Kiev lenses on your R2. :angel:
ray*j*gun
Veteran
I agree......have had 3 Kiev's from "good" sources and none worked. On the other hand I have had a Fed 2 and a Zorki 3 that woked well...still have the Zorki.
My advice would be to keep wondering about the Kievs and keep the Bessa.
IMO the viewfinder of the Kiev (I have a Kiev II) is pitiful and after using a Bessa would seem even more so!
wolves3012
Veteran
Kievs are a bit of an acquired taste. They're complicated cameras (aren't they supposed to be the most complicated RF, mechanically?). I have two and they both work well, solid and (so far) reliable but one has been serviced and the other sees little use. I'd guess the comment about the Kiev's VF versus a Bessa is likely to be accurate too. Old ideas and technology versus new.
Santafecino
button man
How many lenses do you need? 35, 50, 90--done. It will be cheaper to keep a Bessa and buy the LTM lenses you need. Kievs do make good pictures--I have 2 and both were serviced by Oleg--they are reliable, but I regard them as fun cameras, mainly. On the other hand, Kiev is the only one that can reliably use the Jupiter-9, so that may be a good reason to get serious about one. That means trying out the turret finder and making sure it frames right.