zvos1
Well-known
With E-p1 prices dropping rapidly I cannot justify not getting one anymore - $699 here in Oz with 17mm lens.
I considered GF1 but it sells for almost three times as much $1,499 with 20mm 1.7 lens.
I am aware of the most shortcomings of E-p1, but the thing that concerns me the most is the low light shooting performance as there is no inbuilt flash.
I'd love to hear from E-p1 users how they do it, is the combination of relatively clean high iso, 2.8 aperture and image stabilisation enough to tackle most of the poorly lit situations. Or have you ever found yourself in the situation where you wished you had a flash?
Also, how useful do you find accessory viewfinder?
I considered GF1 but it sells for almost three times as much $1,499 with 20mm 1.7 lens.
I am aware of the most shortcomings of E-p1, but the thing that concerns me the most is the low light shooting performance as there is no inbuilt flash.
I'd love to hear from E-p1 users how they do it, is the combination of relatively clean high iso, 2.8 aperture and image stabilisation enough to tackle most of the poorly lit situations. Or have you ever found yourself in the situation where you wished you had a flash?
Also, how useful do you find accessory viewfinder?
xwhatsit
Well-known
Hey, I'm just an idiot who started using fixed-lens film rangefinders a few months ago, but isn't the cool thing about the µ⁴₃ cameras the fact that you can get adapters for almost any old piece of fast glass under the sun? I mean, gosh, here in NZ you can get an old SMC Takumar 55/2 for about $NZ10 -- faster lenses sell for a bit more, but nothing compared to blowing $AU699 on a digital camera. Is there a M42 adapter? There are certainly M39 adapters and you can get step-up rings -- and as I saw on another thread today, because it's a through-the-lens affair, as long as you can mount something you can focus it.
I got interested in film cameras (in particular the super cheap fast-lensed Yashica fixed-lens rangefinders) because I hate the look of the awful flash photos taken with cheap P&S digicams my friends splash all over their Facebook pages. A bunch of startled deers against a completely featureless black background. I know people do clever things with flash... but for low-light photography if you have other options?
It's not like the E-P1 doesn't have a hot-shoe anyway.
I got interested in film cameras (in particular the super cheap fast-lensed Yashica fixed-lens rangefinders) because I hate the look of the awful flash photos taken with cheap P&S digicams my friends splash all over their Facebook pages. A bunch of startled deers against a completely featureless black background. I know people do clever things with flash... but for low-light photography if you have other options?
It's not like the E-P1 doesn't have a hot-shoe anyway.
zvos1
Well-known
I hear you mate, I hate those awful flash P&S photos...that is the main reason I want to go micro 4/3. It'll be interesting to hear from E-p1 owners how does it perform in really bad light.
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
Well, it depends on your expectations. I use the Pen 1&2 in low light all the time.
I prefer the Pen 1 because it eliminates the issue of using the EVF.
I would suggest you go B&W above 1600-2000.
The camera is great and records beautifully in low light if you understand your subject matter.
The 17 is great and so is the 20. The finder with the 17 is nice because it's bright all the time. I even use AF with that finder. I set the AF Target point down 1 step. It's then accurate to the screen.
I run my DNG files thru PS4 and LR 3.2.
Shoot raw only... If you worry about exposure, look at Ralph Gibsons work and then relax.
There's setup things to help but that's after you get the camera....
I prefer the Pen 1 because it eliminates the issue of using the EVF.
I would suggest you go B&W above 1600-2000.
The camera is great and records beautifully in low light if you understand your subject matter.
The 17 is great and so is the 20. The finder with the 17 is nice because it's bright all the time. I even use AF with that finder. I set the AF Target point down 1 step. It's then accurate to the screen.
I run my DNG files thru PS4 and LR 3.2.
Shoot raw only... If you worry about exposure, look at Ralph Gibsons work and then relax.
There's setup things to help but that's after you get the camera....
PeterB666
Member
I have the Olympus E-P1 which I use a lot in low-light situations. I was using the camera mated to the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 for low light work but most of what I do is with a tripod and really long exposures. I now use the Olympus 9-18mm M.Zuiko lens most of the time as pre-dawn to sunrise seascapes are my main interest.
The camera is quite good in low light. Noise levels are commendable for a camera of its size, around the same as say a Canon 500D. There are better cameras out there such as the Nikon D5000 and D90 or the Pentax K-x but these don't offer the same degree of portability.
I rarely use flash but I do have the Olympus FL-14 and will probably soon supplement it with the Nissin Di466 for Four Thirds which is great value for money and quite similar to the Olympus FL-36R. The only things you miss out on are the high-speed sync (which I would like) and the built in remote which you cannot use with the E-P1 or E-P2 anyway.
Built in flashes are rubbish anyway, so I don't miss one. The FL-14, although limited and best used at ISO200 is better than any built in flashes and still reasonably compact.
As I do predominately long exposure landscapes in early light, I am often shooting with small apertures and no IS. The key of course is to use a tripod.
For hand-held shots, you will find me using IS and even boosting the ISO to 3200 (but I prefer to stay at or below 1600). ISO1600 images retain a lot of detail and ISO400 to 800 is excellent. I only do minor cleaning up of noise as I am not a noise control freak.
Quite frankly, I would love to have one. It would come in useful in situations where I am shooting 40 to 60 seconds at f/5.6 and ISO200. Framing is trial and error without an optical viewfinder with that little light. Even with the 9-18mm zoom it would be useful for setting up but you still have the problem of needing something to see to focus, and I am talking about manual focus, as you must do this on the LCD. Still, fire off a couple of test shots or get a strong torch and you are fine.
If you want a compact camera and to work in low light,
PCB_RF
Established
Lots of possibilities on the noise front. You might want to check out high ISO images online, or shoot some with the camera before you buy, if possible, so you know what you're dealing with. Only you know your own noise tolerance level.
I've done all of the following:
*Nothing---the noise isn't all that bad, beats the pants off of any p&s and some older DSLRs
*Switch to b/w when shooting at ISO1600 or higher---noise is much less annoying in b/w
*Use noise reduction plug-ins (I use Nik's D-Fine, many use Noise Ninja, lots of other choices---new LightRoom beta noise reduction is supposed to be excellent)
*Use fast mf lenses with adapter: this can be affordable and work OK if you don't need wide. A used Canon FD/Minolta MD 50/1.4 can be gotten cheap, and adapters don't have to be pricey. US$90 can get you an effective 100/1.4
I don't tend to use the 17 optical vf much. I also have a Panny G1, and tend to take that when I know I'll be shooting outside and will have trouble using the LCD. Indoors I don't find the optical vf to be any faster/better than the LCD.
I've done all of the following:
*Nothing---the noise isn't all that bad, beats the pants off of any p&s and some older DSLRs
*Switch to b/w when shooting at ISO1600 or higher---noise is much less annoying in b/w
*Use noise reduction plug-ins (I use Nik's D-Fine, many use Noise Ninja, lots of other choices---new LightRoom beta noise reduction is supposed to be excellent)
*Use fast mf lenses with adapter: this can be affordable and work OK if you don't need wide. A used Canon FD/Minolta MD 50/1.4 can be gotten cheap, and adapters don't have to be pricey. US$90 can get you an effective 100/1.4
I don't tend to use the 17 optical vf much. I also have a Panny G1, and tend to take that when I know I'll be shooting outside and will have trouble using the LCD. Indoors I don't find the optical vf to be any faster/better than the LCD.
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SteveM
Established
A short while ago I purchased an Olympus EP-2, which in terms of low-light performance should be the same as the EP-1. I also bought the FL-36 flash. A major need was being able to take photos in total darkness or very low light - hence the flash.
It turned out that the EP-2 could not focus without a certain level of light. Furthermore, in what I consider a design flaw, the low-light focus assist lamp built into the FL-36 flash does not work with the EP-x series cameras. So basically, the camera was useless in dark to very low light situations.
I returned the EP-2 for a Panasonic GF-1, and its built-in low-light focus assist lamp works very well. Its small flash is handy but no substitute for a real external flash.
I can't say what the lowest light level threshold is for the EP-1 to focus, but it might be worth testing before deciding. This was a great pity for me, as I preferred most other aspects of the EP-2 to the GF-1.
Steve
It turned out that the EP-2 could not focus without a certain level of light. Furthermore, in what I consider a design flaw, the low-light focus assist lamp built into the FL-36 flash does not work with the EP-x series cameras. So basically, the camera was useless in dark to very low light situations.
I returned the EP-2 for a Panasonic GF-1, and its built-in low-light focus assist lamp works very well. Its small flash is handy but no substitute for a real external flash.
I can't say what the lowest light level threshold is for the EP-1 to focus, but it might be worth testing before deciding. This was a great pity for me, as I preferred most other aspects of the EP-2 to the GF-1.
Steve
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I use an E-620 (pretty much the DSLR version of the E-P1) and ISO 400 is beautiful, 800 is very good, 1600 still usable, 3200... well, I try not to use 3200. I don't usually convert to black and white. That's what my M6 is for.
The NR in the LR 3 beta is indeed superb, and even without NR LR3 gives me substantially better RAW conversion than LR2. I think it pulls an extra half stop out of the Oly files.
The NR in the LR 3 beta is indeed superb, and even without NR LR3 gives me substantially better RAW conversion than LR2. I think it pulls an extra half stop out of the Oly files.
NickTrop
Veteran
If low-light shooting is your goal, I'm not so sure the Oly is the best choice not to say it's a bad camera. The Samsung NX10 with the 30mm F2 and its larger APS-C sensor may be a better alternative, and I bet it's priced the same as the Oly. I, as well, prefer to shoot candids in available light (and like you used the low-cost Yashicas...). For this purpose, I decided on the Nikon D5000 with its new 35mm f1.8 DX lens. Refurbished by Nikon D5000 bodies were available in the US for $470 US and were fairly plentiful due to an early recall. The prime lens goes for $200... for a kit that costs $670 total. I put this kit in aperture priority and shoot it like the Yashicas, mostly. It's my "fixed lens DSLR". With a fast prime it's the best low-light kit I've ever used, and even has a silent shutter mode. The prime lens is excellent wide open - good flare control, and stays shaper than the old classic glass. It's pretty compact too, though not as compact as the 4/3.
zvos1
Well-known
Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated. I finally pulled the trigger and bought the camera. It is just a tremendous value at the moment comparing to Panny GF1 which hasn't dropped in price here at all.
I will not be using it primarily in low light but on occasion when I do, I am sure it will perform much much better than any P&S. Also I love high contrast, grainy B&W kinda shots.
I was toying with an idea of a small dSLR and a prime lens, but it wouldn't be a small take anywhere package like Oly is.
First impressions....hm, I just love the way the camera feels in my hands,perfect size and weight and love how nice and bright external viewfinder is. It feels much better than GF1, but it is my subjective opinion.
Battery is currently charging, we'll see how the camera performs as soon as it is fully charged.
I will not be using it primarily in low light but on occasion when I do, I am sure it will perform much much better than any P&S. Also I love high contrast, grainy B&W kinda shots.
I was toying with an idea of a small dSLR and a prime lens, but it wouldn't be a small take anywhere package like Oly is.
First impressions....hm, I just love the way the camera feels in my hands,perfect size and weight and love how nice and bright external viewfinder is. It feels much better than GF1, but it is my subjective opinion.
Battery is currently charging, we'll see how the camera performs as soon as it is fully charged.
S
sfaust
Guest
It's been 6 days, and I'm wondering how it worked out for you. I just picked up a E-P1 as well, and will be using it with the Pana 20mm 1.7, the Oly 14-42 kit zoom, a 40mm 1.4 Nokton I'll pick up next week, and a 75mm 2.5 Heliar I currently own.
My quick tests show it is indeed quite usable up to ISO 1600, and going to B&W gives it even more legs. The image quality looks great and a definite step up from the Canon G10 I was using, but obviously no where near the 1DsMkIII I use for work. Just about pocket-able with the smaller pancake lenses, and not bad to carry around all day even with the kit zoom.
So far, I've only shot it with the kit zoom (other lenses or adapters are on order), and quite happy with it for low light even with the slower 3.5-5.6 lens. I know picking up a few more stops with the faster lenses will only enhance the low light capabilities. I think it will be great in the typical situations I got it for (family get togethers, indoor social events, general everyday photography), basically a G10 replacement for me. I don't see the lack of a flash being a problem for me, and would rather have the stabilization (in body on the E-P1) over the flash without stabilization as on the GF1 w/ 20mm lens. I think the E-P1 and 20mm 1.7 will be a perfect low light camera for me. Time will tell.
My quick tests show it is indeed quite usable up to ISO 1600, and going to B&W gives it even more legs. The image quality looks great and a definite step up from the Canon G10 I was using, but obviously no where near the 1DsMkIII I use for work. Just about pocket-able with the smaller pancake lenses, and not bad to carry around all day even with the kit zoom.
So far, I've only shot it with the kit zoom (other lenses or adapters are on order), and quite happy with it for low light even with the slower 3.5-5.6 lens. I know picking up a few more stops with the faster lenses will only enhance the low light capabilities. I think it will be great in the typical situations I got it for (family get togethers, indoor social events, general everyday photography), basically a G10 replacement for me. I don't see the lack of a flash being a problem for me, and would rather have the stabilization (in body on the E-P1) over the flash without stabilization as on the GF1 w/ 20mm lens. I think the E-P1 and 20mm 1.7 will be a perfect low light camera for me. Time will tell.
spiderfrank
just a dreamer
I'm a new owner of an E-PL1: I found using manual focus is some time necessary in very low light, but it's also easy to do, EVF is really grainy in these situations, but still usable. This morning arrived my adapter for m39 lenses (I have some Voigtlander, a Summitar, and some russian lenses to play with), and I expect to have a good time using all my "arsenal" with the new toy.
There are adapters for every lens type outside in the world, I bought mine from Adriano Lolli, it seems very well built (I have yet to test it, of course)
Franco
There are adapters for every lens type outside in the world, I bought mine from Adriano Lolli, it seems very well built (I have yet to test it, of course)
Franco
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
I just got an E-P2 a week ago and find it very useful in low light. The EVF works wonders in pulling light out of no where and I have zero problems focusing even my old LTM lenses. Flash? Don't use it. I wish I had a decent legacy lens to use as a WA, but I'll play with the kit lens for that category, and foe real quality I have the Leica adapter on hand and a Canon FD adapter on order. Great camera, very useful. Almost as much fun as my Leica M2.
david.elliott
Well-known
Just echoing this post. Couldnt agree more.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Plus one there. I am using manual focus lenses and have not found low light to be a problem. It does make sense that the autofocus would hunt in that situation -- particularly with a contrast detection system. Still, most AF will hunt, even some human eyes will hunt, in that situation. The EVF has been my friend in this respect.
Ben
Ben
S
sfaust
Guest
Here is a shot I took a few days ago while walking around Chinatown.
I shot this at ISO2000, handheld with image stabilization in IS1 mode. I pulled it into Lightroom 3 and punched up the colors and contrast since I was shooting through the storefront window as well as the display glass and it lost some punch and contrast. I didn't add any luminance noise reduction, but LR3 applies 25 color noise reduction as default. A slight bit of sharpening with a little post crop vignetting finished it off.
Not to bad for a small sensor at ISO2000, and quite usable for low light IMO.
I shot this at ISO2000, handheld with image stabilization in IS1 mode. I pulled it into Lightroom 3 and punched up the colors and contrast since I was shooting through the storefront window as well as the display glass and it lost some punch and contrast. I didn't add any luminance noise reduction, but LR3 applies 25 color noise reduction as default. A slight bit of sharpening with a little post crop vignetting finished it off.
Not to bad for a small sensor at ISO2000, and quite usable for low light IMO.
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S
sfaust
Guest
Here is the same image with noise reduction added.
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januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Stephan, your "reduced noise" image link above got broken... Liked your website, BTW. Very professional looking.
Gary Sandhu
Well-known
I got it for the video and because for $480 refurbished with the kit zoom it was too good to pass on (from B&H). I get a kick out o shooting video with a 35 lux mounted or a 90 cron. Manual focus works well enough. With the smaller sensor. I get about 2 stops o increased apparent depth of field but the same light transmittance as shooting wide open.