Leica LTM Lubricating a Summar

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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rdeleskie

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As the title says: does anyone have any tips/suggestions for DIY lubricating a Summar? The aperture ring on mine is fine, but the focus is tacky as heck. I actually like the haze, so I don't want a full CLA. Or am I just better off sending it off to a pro (I'm guessing this will be the recommendation...)

Thanks!
 
Having it relubed only should not set you back too much. IIRC having a full CLA might be much more costly because the Summar is a hard nut to crack, if it can be opened at all.

A camera tech will probably have little trouble cleaning the old grease from the helical and relubing it since it is all external to the optical cell.

You could try this first: extend the lens and mount a rear lens cap. Now, take a can of lighter fluid (naphtha, for Zippo lighters) and put some four five drops in between the two parts with the distance scale and DOF scale. Next, start turning the distance back and forth. You should feel it free up in a while.

Trouble is, as soon as the lighter fluid has evaporated, the focusing gets tougher again. But, it might not return to its former thoughness and if you repeat that procedure once a day for several days you might have made some progress already.

If that doesn't suffice I'd check the Leica forum-sticky thread on repair people to see which repairman is closest to you and give him/her a call.
 
rlouzan said:
http://justinlow.com/articles/repair-leica-summitar
Click to expand...

I quoted you and placed a post in the DIY thread.

Thankyou for the link. I did a Collapsible Summicron, almost like the Summitar. I just looked at my Summar, construction of the helical housing looks the same.

WORD OF CAUTION: be careful of the aperture mechanism when you unscrew the front module on a Leica. Blow on it, they fall out. Turn if upside down, they fall out. i learned by others (Back Alley) mistakes.
 
buzzardkid said:
You could try this first: extend the lens and mount a rear lens cap. Now, take a can of lighter fluid (naphtha, for Zippo lighters) and put some four five drops in between the two parts with the distance scale and DOF scale. Next, start turning the distance back and forth. You should feel it free up in a while.
Click to expand...



Don't do that.

If the lubricants are liquified and spread to the glass you are screwed and will have destroyed a lens that has survived since the 1930's.

Also do not use regular household oil as a lubricant. Over time it will spread and may reach the optics. You need a lubricant that has been formulated to not spread. See here for an explanation:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ba-1964-0043.ch025


Send it to a competent repair shop. It may be an old lens, but it is a precision engineered piece of equipment and should be treated as such.

Find a shop here:

http://www.lhsa.org/resources/repair_services/default.aspx
 
Probably not a good idea, because Tri-Flow (as the name implies) is very likely formulated to migrate across the surface of your bike chain etc. That is exactly what it would also do inside your lens and exactly what you don't want a lubricant to do in a camera.

Send the lens to a shop or if you insist on playing around with it yourself, find a place on the internet that sells non-migrating lubricants for cameras. Try Micro-tools first.
 
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Harry Lime said:
Probably not a good idea, because Tri-Flow (as the name implies) is very likely formulated to migrate across the surface of your bike chain etc. ...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend the common Tri-Flow "oil" either, though the design of a collapsible lens make migration a very minor problem. The optic and the helicoid are very separate.

On the other hand, Tri-Flow's waterproof grease (sold in bike shops for lubing the bearings in hubs and bottom brackets, safe on plasitic and synthetic rubber, USDA approved, Kosher) would be a much better choice, provided you disassemble the helicoid to remove all traces of the old dried lubricant and apply only a thin film of the grease before reassembly. This has worked rather well on an old junker Summitar that I tried it on a little while back.

In general, solvents added to rejuvenate the old lube are a temporary fix at best. They will likely either dry out and return the item to its stiff or frozen state or either migrate themselves or cause the loosened old lube to migrate. The only real fix is to completely remove the old lube and replace it with new.
 
Dwig said:
I wouldn't recommend the common Tri-Flow "oil" either, though the design of a collapsible lens make migration a very minor problem. The optic and the helicoid are very separate.

On the other hand, Tri-Flow's waterproof grease (sold in bike shops for lubing the bearings in hubs and bottom brackets, safe on plasitic and synthetic rubber, USDA approved, Kosher) would be a much better choice, provided you disassemble the helicoid to remove all traces of the old dried lubricant and apply only a thin film of the grease before reassembly. This has worked rather well on an old junker Summitar that I tried it on a little while back.

In general, solvents added to rejuvenate the old lube are a temporary fix at best. They will likely either dry out and return the item to its stiff or frozen state or either migrate themselves or cause the loosened old lube to migrate. The only real fix is to completely remove the old lube and replace it with new.
Click to expand...

What I like about Tri-Flow is it doesn't really migrate, and it softens hardened lubricant that is old and actually combines with it so it does not re-harden. I wouldn't knock it until you have tried it. It is certainly better than any oil or naphtha that I have tried.
 
Hi Johan,

I am glad you find them interesting😀.
Instead of that, just post a picture here of that beauty of yours🙂 when it's ready.

Best,
Robert


buzzardkid said:
Robert, those threads are excellent finds, thanks!

(OT: Still working on my IIIa kit to come together so I can send you that picture!)
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charjohncarter said:
What I like about Tri-Flow is it doesn't really migrate, and it softens hardened lubricant that is old and actually combines with it so it does not re-harden. I wouldn't knock it until you have tried it. It is certainly better than any oil or naphtha that I have tried.
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All of these ideas are band-aids that can potentially cause more damage than good. Dripping lighter fluid or anything else in to a lens in an attempt to revive some lubricants that separated and degraded decades ago is a hack job.

I can't imagine how many vintage lenses are damaged or permanently destroyed every year, because of antics like this.

Would you try to repair your Leica with a Leatherman, instead of the proper tools?

If you're going to use a lens, then shell out the money to get it overhauled by a professional.
 
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Choose the professional carefully.

I just received a wartime Zeiss Sonnar sent to a well-known professional. Smooth as butter for focus, RF Cam agrees with the distance scale. The actual focus is 2m off at 5m. The lens is unusable. The "professional" cemented the optics module into the focus mount instead of using a proper shim. It is no longer removable. I will use cement in a hack like an I-61L/D made into collapsible Contax mount, but would never do it to a valuable lens.

I use white Lithium grease on a lens. To do that, you need to take the helical apart. For some helicals, I use vacuum pump grease. It was great on a collapsible LTM Summicron. That's the best way to do it. Working something into the helical- will work for the short term, I've done that as well on a Summitar. Worst of that on these Leica lenses, the RF cam "is" the helical. If the oil flows, it flows onto the RF roller of the camera. What I used did not.
 
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Harry Lime said:
All of these ideas are band-aids that can potentially cause more damage than good. Dripping lighter fluid or anything else in to a lens in an attempt to revive some lubricants that separated and degraded decades ago is a hack job.

I can't imagine how many vintage lenses are damaged or permanently destroyed every year, because of antics like this.

Would you try to repair your Leica with a Leatherman, instead of the proper tools?

If you're going to use a lens, then shell out the money to get it overhauled by a professional.
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Loosen up Harry, it's a Summar, the focus mechanism is 30+mm from the aperture leafs. I've used the stuff on the green dried lube that Agfa used (plus LTM lenses). It has been fine for years. It has to be lubed with something, and I like this stuff (whether it is lithium lube or vacuum pump gease or Tri-flow). Gads. As for the roller it will not get on the roller any easier than any other lube.
 
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charjohncarter said:
Loosen up Harry, it's a Summar, the focus mechanism is 30+mm from the aperture leafs. I've used the stuff on the green dried lube that Agfa used (plus LTM lenses). It has been fine for years. It has to be lubed with something, and I like this stuff (whether it is lithium lube or vacuum pump gease or Tri-flow). Gads. As for the roller it will not get on the roller any easier than any other lube.
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Some people just choose to remain ignorant, even when faced the with the facts.

If you want to go ahead and manhandle your own gear, then go right ahead. After all, you paid for it and are free to do with it as you please.

But you are giving poor advice to people, who's intentions are well meant, but are obviously inexperienced.


Here is a place where you can buy proper lubricants. Give them a ring or shoot them an email for some advice on what would work. But this still won't solve the problem that you are adding new lubricant to material that has completely deteriorated at this point and needs to be removed.

http://www.ofrei.com/page246.html


Just keep in mind that you will need an collimator to re-calibrate the focus of the lens, if you open it and start to operate.

The original poster is in Canada, so I recommend Kindermann. Gerry does outstanding work and is a nice guy to boot. If you get the lens serviced, save the invoice. Proof of a CLA by a reputable shop will boost the price of the lens substantially, if you should decide to sell it at a later point.

Kindermann (Canada) Inc.
Address:
361 Steelcase Road West
Unit #3
Markham, ON L3R 3V8
CA

Contact:
Gerry Smith
905.940.9262
905.479.9755
kindrman@istar.ca
www.kindermann.ca
 
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Brian Sweeney said:
Choose the professional carefully.

I just received a wartime Zeiss Sonnar sent to a well-known professional. Smooth as butter for focus, RF Cam agrees with the distance scale. The actual focus is 2m off at 5m. The lens is unusable. The "professional" cemented the optics module into the focus mount instead of using a proper shim. It is no longer removable. I will use cement in a hack like an I-61L/D made into collapsible Contax mount, but would never do it to a valuable lens.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that is the same genius, who 'CLA'd my Summitar, Summar and 3.5/50 Elmar a few years ago. The aperture ring on the Summitar came back free spinning and all three lenses dried up in about 2 years to the point where the Summar aperture ring was basically frozen.

I ended up taking them to a friend in Hollywood, who services lenses for the movie industry. He had a few choice words to say about that guys 'work'.

If anyone needs a recommendation let me know. I've dealt with shops in the US, UK and Germany.
 
Harry Lime said:
Some people just choose to remain ignorant, even when faced the with the facts.

If you want to go ahead and manhandle your own gear, then go right ahead. After all, you paid for it and are free to do with it as you please.

But you are giving poor advice to people, who's intentions are well meant, but are obviously inexperienced.


Here is a place where you can buy proper lubricants. Give them a ring or shoot them an email for some advice on what would work. But this still won't solve the problem that you are adding new lubricant to material that has completely deteriorated at this point and needs to be removed.

http://www.ofrei.com/page246.html


Just keep in mind that you will need an collimator to re-calibrate the focus of the lens, if you open it and start to operate.

The original poster is in Canada, so I recommend Kindermann. Gerry does outstanding work and is a nice guy to boot. If you get the lens serviced, save the invoice. Proof of a CLA by a reputable shop will boost the price of the lens substantially, if you should decide to sell it at a later point.

Kindermann (Canada) Inc.
Address:
361 Steelcase Road West
Unit #3
Markham, ON L3R 3V8
CA

Contact:
Gerry Smith
905.940.9262
905.479.9755
kindrman@istar.ca
www.kindermann.ca
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information, but you starting to sound like our Eric Holder, he hasn't read the new Arizona law, but thinks it is unconstitutional. I have used Tri-Flow, have never had a problem. It does not spread, and it requires less than one drop for a focusing mechnism. My or your advice may both be poor, but these are my experiences.
 
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