Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Such trauma and indecision can lead to psychological problems in later life - you would be well advised to simplify things by taking just a digital P&S and a few 4GB cards - you will then sleep soundly in the hotels! 
... alternately there are some splendid postcards available these days!
... alternately there are some splendid postcards available these days! Vics
Veteran
My wife and I go to Europe about every 18 months or so and have for thirty years. We do this in order to photograph. I take one camera and one lens (my wife likes her P&S digi. She later paints from the photos) I've traveled around with a Rollei TLR, Nikon F SLR (or Pentax, or Maxxum), and now I go with a Leica/50. I also take a TON of film of just one type. Back in the '70s and '80s it was Kodachrome, '90s it was Plus-x, last ten years it's been Tri-X. This October's five-week trip will be FP4+.
You will be AMAZED at how much walking you will do. You'll also be surprised at how different everything looks. You'll be busy LOOKING and shooting. All that gear will just get in the way. An old rule of travel photography is "Don't take any new gear with you that you're not thoroughly comfortable with."
If I were you, I'd take my fav camera and LOTS of my favorite film. Or at the MOST, one cam for color and one for BW, but just one kind of each film. We once did a long tour with two K100 bodies, one for K64, and the other for Plus-X, one with a 40mm and one with 85mm, and just swapped stuff around as needed. That worked pretty well. The color shots were the best. Europe is colorful!
My main point is: Keep it real simple and light. And remember that versatility is the enemy of style!
Have a great time. Your first trip to Europe only happens once!
VS
You will be AMAZED at how much walking you will do. You'll also be surprised at how different everything looks. You'll be busy LOOKING and shooting. All that gear will just get in the way. An old rule of travel photography is "Don't take any new gear with you that you're not thoroughly comfortable with."
If I were you, I'd take my fav camera and LOTS of my favorite film. Or at the MOST, one cam for color and one for BW, but just one kind of each film. We once did a long tour with two K100 bodies, one for K64, and the other for Plus-X, one with a 40mm and one with 85mm, and just swapped stuff around as needed. That worked pretty well. The color shots were the best. Europe is colorful!
My main point is: Keep it real simple and light. And remember that versatility is the enemy of style!
Have a great time. Your first trip to Europe only happens once!
VS
FrankS
Registered User
Such trauma and indecision can lead to psychological problems in later life - you would be well advised to simplify things by taking just a digital P&S and a few 4GB cards - you will then sleep soundly in the hotels!
This is fine advice for an ordinary travelling person, but not for a dedicated photographer. Also good advice for an older phtographer who would struggle carrying gear and walking distances, but it sounds like the OP is younger and and more energetic rather than geriatric. IMO
Also, if you are just buying postcards, you may as well give away your cameras, and stay at home and watch the travel shows.
Also, I would NEVER travel all that distance and bring only one camera along, as some have suggested. Photography is much more important to me than that. Others may be okay with it, and that is fine for them.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Frank,
Para 1: Even when I was in my 20s there was such a thing as too much gear. And as far as I'm aware these two 'geriatrics' (Dave and I) are taking their motorcycles to Arles this year.
Para 2: I could not agree more.
Para 3: Some people get REALLY offended when you suggest that anyone might care more about photography than they do, even though a nanosecond's thought would reveal that some people must indeed care more about photography than others, and that the questions they ask (or answers they give) may reveal something about the depth of their commitment.
Cheers,
R.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Due to the nature and content of the OP, I would have thought that it was fairly obvious that my reply was partially with tongue in cheek.....although perhaps there is sound argument for my advice - in this case?.
FrankS
Registered User
Ah, sorry Dave, I could not see the tongue in cheek on the computer screen.
mike kim
Established
I'd take only one camera of each format. Don't worry too much and enjoy the trip.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I'll be a bit more serious now - honest!.....I've recently returned from two weeks in southern Turkey, and o.k. - I'm in the wrong end of my sixties and had some cardiac issues last year, but a small Billingham with DSLR (albeit a little D40) two lenses, Leica M2 with a couple of lenses, spot meter and a few filters, topped of with twenty odd rolls of Fomapan, soon became a pain in the proverbial!. From handling that and suitcases around airport carousels and 'transfer' coaches, to walking around hot dusty Turkish villages - with the bag strap rubbing on my sweaty shoulders, I found myself (please forgive me!) wishing I had invested in a DP2 to record my latest wanderings. Now I'm about to do it again! - can anyone tell me the way to Arles....I hear there might be a few good pictures on show!.
pagpow
Well-known
So -- I get that you're pretty much decided on two formats and three cameras plus a number of lenses, so I don't know that you're eager to hear this -- but here goes anyhow...
Consider rethinking taking two different systems and all that gear. I also travel to Europe with some frequency. I have found that when I take three or four cameras, one of two things happens: 1) I leave the hotel room with no cameras because I end up not wanting to think through what to take, 2) I end up leaving one or more cameras packed and use one most of the trip.
I have found that I actually shoot more when I take only one camera (back-up of same system doesn't count) and have with with me at all times -- no thinking about the set up, just see and shoot.
I did one cam my first trip to Europe in 25 years and shot 85 rolls in six weeks. Other times I've taken up to four cameras and come back with fewer than 100 clicks.
Too many decisions in that bag -- MF, 35mm, which lens or two, color or B&W.
YMMV
Whatever you do, let us know how it turns out.
Consider rethinking taking two different systems and all that gear. I also travel to Europe with some frequency. I have found that when I take three or four cameras, one of two things happens: 1) I leave the hotel room with no cameras because I end up not wanting to think through what to take, 2) I end up leaving one or more cameras packed and use one most of the trip.
I have found that I actually shoot more when I take only one camera (back-up of same system doesn't count) and have with with me at all times -- no thinking about the set up, just see and shoot.
I did one cam my first trip to Europe in 25 years and shot 85 rolls in six weeks. Other times I've taken up to four cameras and come back with fewer than 100 clicks.
Too many decisions in that bag -- MF, 35mm, which lens or two, color or B&W.
YMMV
Whatever you do, let us know how it turns out.
I too have done a bit of traveling, and agree with those suggesting simplification. First, I would not take two different film formats; pick one to ease the anxiety over how much of this film and that. Second, while I will usually have a second camera along, it takes the same lenses and film as the other. If I choose to carry both at the same time, they will have different lenses on them so I don't have to be mounting and remounting lenses frequently.
Have fun, travel light, record what catches your eye, and let's see the shots when you return!
Have fun, travel light, record what catches your eye, and let's see the shots when you return!
FrankS
Registered User
My day to day routine gives me little opportunity and less stimulation to take pictures, so when I go on vacation, photography has a big role.
I'm a B+W guy, processing and traditional printing in my home darkroom. But some vignettes demand to shot in colour, sometimes colour is the subject.
Therefore, vacation time means at least 2 cameras, one for B+W and one for colour. This has the additional advantage of providing backup in case one camera fails thousands of miles from home in a special place that cost thousands of dollars to get to (travelling with family) and where I may never get back to again. With 2 cameras, there may as well be 2 lenses, normal and wide, or wide and very wide. This means a camera bag, so may as well carry one more lens so that you have normal, wide, and very wide to choose from.
Almost everyone who has used a MF camera sees the tonal and detail rendering advantage over the 135 format. So take one of those as well.
This is all with the caveat that one is physically able to carry this. In other words, physical capability is trump here.
I'm a B+W guy, processing and traditional printing in my home darkroom. But some vignettes demand to shot in colour, sometimes colour is the subject.
Therefore, vacation time means at least 2 cameras, one for B+W and one for colour. This has the additional advantage of providing backup in case one camera fails thousands of miles from home in a special place that cost thousands of dollars to get to (travelling with family) and where I may never get back to again. With 2 cameras, there may as well be 2 lenses, normal and wide, or wide and very wide. This means a camera bag, so may as well carry one more lens so that you have normal, wide, and very wide to choose from.
Almost everyone who has used a MF camera sees the tonal and detail rendering advantage over the 135 format. So take one of those as well.
This is all with the caveat that one is physically able to carry this. In other words, physical capability is trump here.
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wgerrard
Veteran
I'll be a bit more serious now - honest!.....I've recently returned from two weeks in southern Turkey, and o.k. - I'm in the wrong end of my sixties and had some cardiac issues last year, but a small Billingham with DSLR (albeit a little D40) two lenses, Leica M2 with a couple of lenses, spot meter and a few filters, topped of with twenty odd rolls of Fomapan, soon became a pain in the proverbial!. From handling that and suitcases around airport carousels and 'transfer' coaches, to walking around hot dusty Turkish villages - with the bag strap rubbing on my sweaty shoulders, I found myself (please forgive me!) wishing I had invested in a DP2 to record my latest wanderings. Now I'm about to do it again! - can anyone tell me the way to Arles....I hear there might be a few good pictures on show!.
I'm with you on that, Dave. I'm in my early sixties and really hate carrying around stuff. I usually travel with a Bessa R4M and 3 lenses (21/4. 35/1.2, and a 50.) Even that gets to be wearisome after several days. I never carry a bag at home, so even the lightest bag eventually generates a sore shoulder.
I'll be in the UK for two weeks in late September and early October and I'm already trying to figure out how to cut things down so I can travel with a light camera bag and a single carryon. Maybe this time I'll take the M2 and just the 35/1.2.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
The total IQ of MF is achieved with a tripod... If you bring both formats for handheld shooting, chances are that some images from your MF camera will be inferior in many aspects compared to some of your 35mm shots. Besides, you'll need three MF rolls to get the same number of shots you get with a 35mm roll. And you'll need to carry three times the weight and use three times the space and you'll be worried and/or tired all the time... I'd bring 35mm only.
I would bring three cameras, and here's why: I'd dedicate one to color negative film. For that I'd take one with AE with a small zoom: an SLR or a point-and-shoot, with 5 Ektar (ISO100) rolls and five Portra (ISO400) rolls. So, color resolved for those scenes that can only be in color: in total one camera with one zoom lens, and two kinds of film: everything can be done, even pushing to 1600...
For the main shooting, B&W, I'd take two cameras: one with a moderate wide lens (28 or 35) and another one with a moderate tele (75 or 90) and during all my trip I'd forget about changing lenses. I'd bring just Tri-X (at least 30 rolls) and expose most of it at 400, and some of it at 100 or 1600 if necessary.
One camera ready always: hanging from my shoulder, and the other two hanging in a very small bag with me all the trip.
Cheers,
Juan
I would bring three cameras, and here's why: I'd dedicate one to color negative film. For that I'd take one with AE with a small zoom: an SLR or a point-and-shoot, with 5 Ektar (ISO100) rolls and five Portra (ISO400) rolls. So, color resolved for those scenes that can only be in color: in total one camera with one zoom lens, and two kinds of film: everything can be done, even pushing to 1600...
For the main shooting, B&W, I'd take two cameras: one with a moderate wide lens (28 or 35) and another one with a moderate tele (75 or 90) and during all my trip I'd forget about changing lenses. I'd bring just Tri-X (at least 30 rolls) and expose most of it at 400, and some of it at 100 or 1600 if necessary.
One camera ready always: hanging from my shoulder, and the other two hanging in a very small bag with me all the trip.
Cheers,
Juan
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xxloverxx
Shoot.
Seems we have many mixed opinions here (and that's a good thing).
I'm not worried about leaving the hotel with no camera, as the Rollei, even in HK, is always in my pocket even when I go out for a short walk. It's small enough to fit in my pocket with a flash mounted.
The reason I'm taking this camera is because it's so small, and I'm already taking 35mm film, that it seems silly not to — if nothing else, I feel more secure having it "just in case".
Regarding Vics' post, I will have 1 body for colour & B&W in 35mm, but also 1 body and 2 backs in 120.
The only time I'll be swapping lenses is when I need f2 on the J8. In fact, given the 40mm on the Rollei, I might just not bring the J12 — less loose stuff to carry and absolutely no swapping of lenses.
Dave: From your post I'm guessing that you had to handle everything by yourself? Only bringing 2 filters: yellow & polariser. Not that I have any other filters…
Physically I'm not too worried (with my parents there, we'll be doing a lot of "tea" breaks and sitting down to "enjoy the aircon" (basically, rest))…most days I do plenty of walking (with very little sitting down) with my cameras. I'll just have to try not to eat too much ice cream these 3 weeks, tempting as it is.
It's not 20 rolls of film rolling about it my bag that I'll be thinking about, as I'm only shooting 1 roll/day (or in 35mm's case, less than that). I'll always have a spare roll though.
The rest of the film stays in the room.
I was thinking of wrapping exposed 120 film in aluminium foil and putting it in a transparent bag — am I likely to face any troubles at the airport? How insistent should I be when asking for a hand check?
Peter & Tom: Thanks; I'll be buying all my film in HK then will stick with FP4 & Ektacolor in 120. Tri-X in 35mm because I like the look & just incase the clouds start coming in.
Frank, your style is much the way I'm thinking right now, except I don't do my own developing. We might not be going back to Europe for quite a while — mum is determined to travel the world around like grandpa did (and still does, at 80…but with a P&S now) and as we have no family in Europe (they're all in China, Australia or HK), there's even less reason to keep going back (at least in POV).
Thanks for all the posts, they really open my eyes to what travelling with film is like and the potential problems. Keep them coming, at least until I go buy my film (which will finally be decided when I've decided if the Mamiya, which is still somewhere in the middle of the ocean, is coming with me (I'm sure it will, but I'll run some film through just to check))
(Yes, it's true — I haven't even put a test roll in the Mamiya yet, which is why I'm holding off on buying any film until I'm satisfied that all works fine. I'm sure it will as it comes from a trusted friend in Germany.)
I'm not worried about leaving the hotel with no camera, as the Rollei, even in HK, is always in my pocket even when I go out for a short walk. It's small enough to fit in my pocket with a flash mounted.
The reason I'm taking this camera is because it's so small, and I'm already taking 35mm film, that it seems silly not to — if nothing else, I feel more secure having it "just in case".
Regarding Vics' post, I will have 1 body for colour & B&W in 35mm, but also 1 body and 2 backs in 120.
The only time I'll be swapping lenses is when I need f2 on the J8. In fact, given the 40mm on the Rollei, I might just not bring the J12 — less loose stuff to carry and absolutely no swapping of lenses.
Dave: From your post I'm guessing that you had to handle everything by yourself?
Only bringing 2 filters: yellow & polariser. Not that I have any other filters…Physically I'm not too worried (with my parents there, we'll be doing a lot of "tea" breaks and sitting down to "enjoy the aircon" (basically, rest))…most days I do plenty of walking (with very little sitting down) with my cameras. I'll just have to try not to eat too much ice cream these 3 weeks, tempting as it is.
It's not 20 rolls of film rolling about it my bag that I'll be thinking about, as I'm only shooting 1 roll/day (or in 35mm's case, less than that). I'll always have a spare roll though.
The rest of the film stays in the room.
I was thinking of wrapping exposed 120 film in aluminium foil and putting it in a transparent bag — am I likely to face any troubles at the airport? How insistent should I be when asking for a hand check?
Peter & Tom: Thanks; I'll be buying all my film in HK then
will stick with FP4 & Ektacolor in 120. Tri-X in 35mm because I like the look & just incase the clouds start coming in.Frank, your style is much the way I'm thinking right now, except I don't do my own developing. We might not be going back to Europe for quite a while — mum is determined to travel the world around like grandpa did (and still does, at 80…but with a P&S now) and as we have no family in Europe (they're all in China, Australia or HK), there's even less reason to keep going back (at least in POV).
Thanks for all the posts, they really open my eyes to what travelling with film is like and the potential problems. Keep them coming, at least until I go buy my film (which will finally be decided when I've decided if the Mamiya, which is still somewhere in the middle of the ocean, is coming with me (I'm sure it will, but I'll run some film through just to check))
(Yes, it's true — I haven't even put a test roll in the Mamiya yet, which is why I'm holding off on buying any film until I'm satisfied that all works fine. I'm sure it will as it comes from a trusted friend in Germany.)
xxloverxx
Shoot.
I always have a tripod strapped to the bottom of my camera bag.
Good (and justified) suggestions on what to bring & how to shoot it, but that won't work for me as:
I don't actually have that much gear
I'm not as happy, especially on such fine films as Ektar, with any zoom lens I own; I'm much a prime man
Unfortunately, the only primes I have for my Kiev are 35 and 50 — to bring the FM (which I have many more primes and zooms for) would kill me for sure.
Also, your suggestion for 2 types of film on 1 camera would make me hate myself if I made a great shot on 400 when the light was perfect on 100. Not sure why, but I get the feeling it would.
I have, however, considered doing similar to what you suggested.
wiedo
Established
I went to Japan with two Yashica Electro's, half way trough i had 8 and on the end 10.. i would say: I'll never do that again... it's horrible traveling with that much gear. Camera's are pretty heavy.
Next time i'll take my Leica CL with two lenses and only an bunch of cheap rolls for the first week.. Most of the time you could find a camera store somewhere (especially in big cities, like rome or london) in the first couple of days which sells every roll you'll need for the same price as you would pay at home.
You'll never know how much you'll shoot until you get there.. don't overthink this and just be sure you'll have enough for the first 4 or 5 days..
Next time i'll take my Leica CL with two lenses and only an bunch of cheap rolls for the first week.. Most of the time you could find a camera store somewhere (especially in big cities, like rome or london) in the first couple of days which sells every roll you'll need for the same price as you would pay at home.
You'll never know how much you'll shoot until you get there.. don't overthink this and just be sure you'll have enough for the first 4 or 5 days..
Krzys
Well-known
Just do your mathematics and shots a day designations and buy 10-15 rolls more than what it adds up to. Then travel without worry and RULES for your own enjoyment.
Mauro
Mauro
With regard to your days in Italy, I would suggest colour films (maybe slides, if you like) for Venice and B&W films for the Roman architecture in Rome. You should visit the area called Fori Imperiali that is located along the road that link the Altare della Patria (where the unknown soldier is buried) and the Colosseo. I can't recommend any photographic shop in Rome but, in general, films prices are lower in Italy than in other European countries. Hope this helps, you can send a PM to me should you need further information on my country.
Enjoy your days in Europe!
Enjoy your days in Europe!
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
It mostly sounds like a good plan. I would bring more 120 than just enough for 1 shot per day! Let's see: the pro-TL is a 645, so 16 shots per roll. If you see anything important to shoot, you will probably bracket, so there's at least 3 shots per day already. And there's always the possibility of spoiling a roll. I'd say bring 10 or 12 120 rolls. How much more room can that take up, even if you don't use it all? You will use more than you think.
xxloverxx
Shoot.
There seems to be a misunderstanding that I'm only making 1 photo a day; that's not true.
I am assuming for:
15x120 photos a day (1 roll — Rob, the Pro-TL manual says in only makes 15 exp. before it disengages the gears I think) and 3 spare rolls. That's 24, but 25 just to make it even.
21 rolls of colour & 4 rolls of B&W.
2 rolls of 35mm/week — 1 colour, 1 B&W. That's ~10 shots a day.
Thanks for the advice on Venice & Rome, Mauro; I'll keep that in mind. I have never shot slides before, so at least for this trip, I'll pass. I think we're going to see Il Colosseo, but I'm not sure about Fori Imperiali. It's too late to make any changes now; all the tours have been booked.
Krzys — I would love to bring 35 rolls of 120…I'll try to talk mum into that (after all, anything I don't use there will be used in HK, so nothing's wasted)
I am assuming for:
15x120 photos a day (1 roll — Rob, the Pro-TL manual says in only makes 15 exp. before it disengages the gears I think) and 3 spare rolls. That's 24, but 25 just to make it even.
21 rolls of colour & 4 rolls of B&W.
2 rolls of 35mm/week — 1 colour, 1 B&W. That's ~10 shots a day.
Thanks for the advice on Venice & Rome, Mauro; I'll keep that in mind. I have never shot slides before, so at least for this trip, I'll pass. I think we're going to see Il Colosseo, but I'm not sure about Fori Imperiali. It's too late to make any changes now; all the tours have been booked.
Krzys — I would love to bring 35 rolls of 120…I'll try to talk mum into that (after all, anything I don't use there will be used in HK, so nothing's wasted)