koniczech
Established
Hi everyone,
My sister's birthday is coming up, and she has recently shown interest in the 'plastic camera with the cheap lens,' aka Holga. She is going to be 14, and I was wondering if anyone had any input on whether I should get her a cheap Holga/Diana, or I was also looking at the Olympus Trip 35.
She has, like everyone, used CVS disposable cameras years ago, and she now owns one of the worst digital cameras I have ever used, so I think a retro-style camera might be of interest to her. Are there any other beginner cameras you guys can think of?
I use the Yashica GSN and petri 7s, but I think these might be too frustrating for someone just trying to take casual shots, pictures of her friends, etc. For this reason, I am leaning towards the previously mentioned Holga or Trip because they are, if I am not mistaken, guess-focusing, fixed aperture, p&s cheapos.
Thanks for your help!
koniczech
My sister's birthday is coming up, and she has recently shown interest in the 'plastic camera with the cheap lens,' aka Holga. She is going to be 14, and I was wondering if anyone had any input on whether I should get her a cheap Holga/Diana, or I was also looking at the Olympus Trip 35.
She has, like everyone, used CVS disposable cameras years ago, and she now owns one of the worst digital cameras I have ever used, so I think a retro-style camera might be of interest to her. Are there any other beginner cameras you guys can think of?
I use the Yashica GSN and petri 7s, but I think these might be too frustrating for someone just trying to take casual shots, pictures of her friends, etc. For this reason, I am leaning towards the previously mentioned Holga or Trip because they are, if I am not mistaken, guess-focusing, fixed aperture, p&s cheapos.
Thanks for your help!
koniczech
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
If you're sure she wants film, and if she wants it just for casual/friends shots, looks like she needs autoexposure and a zoom, so unless she's interested in slow/serious photography, a film point-and-shoot can offer her easy shooting on a non digital media... Maybe this way, later she could find interest in photography... A camera that doesn't allow her to get some good results from the beginning, could make her forget about film...
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
koniczech
Established
interesting you should mention zoom. I hadn't even though of looking for a film camera with it! What I think she is currently interest in is 1/2 'the look' (i.e. she says that she likes not just following trends) and 1/2 a new hobby (she's into drama and that kinda stuff, so I think the hipster culture that follows holgas would work well for her [no offense to anyone else who fits these adjectives]).
for me, zoom has always slowed me down in the past. At first, I was just outright pissed off with my GSN because I didn't even think of the fact that it's only a 1:1 camera. Now, I appreciate it because what you see (in real life) is what you get. This goes along with my appreciation for film, which I hope to pass on to my siblings.
The mention of not looking for slow/serious photography also applies to why I am considering the Trip35 or Holga. They shoot quick and there's no "chimping" like she usually does with her old digital.
Regardless, I agree on that front. For now, it should not be anything that forces consideration of shutter speed or firing mode or whatever.
What I would appreciate is any other camera models i can look at to consider.
Thanks!
koniczech
for me, zoom has always slowed me down in the past. At first, I was just outright pissed off with my GSN because I didn't even think of the fact that it's only a 1:1 camera. Now, I appreciate it because what you see (in real life) is what you get. This goes along with my appreciation for film, which I hope to pass on to my siblings.
The mention of not looking for slow/serious photography also applies to why I am considering the Trip35 or Holga. They shoot quick and there's no "chimping" like she usually does with her old digital.
Regardless, I agree on that front. For now, it should not be anything that forces consideration of shutter speed or firing mode or whatever.
What I would appreciate is any other camera models i can look at to consider.
Thanks!
koniczech
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
The two cameras you mention are totally different, produce totally different results, and use different film format... From your first post it looked like nice, easy, casual shots on film were the main goal, but you also said she was already interested in the aura others or herself imagine the camera has... In that case, buy her the Holga, because that's the only camera with the plastic unsharp lens for medium format film and "artsy followers"... If she enjoys film enough, she'll know very soon what she needs... Personally I'd consider its fixed aperture, its unsharpness, and the cost of MF film and development for just a few shots, inconvenient... Hope she enjoys any camera!
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
pggunn
gregor
I wouldn't recommend a Holga or similar toy camera for learning photography. There's not enough control, nor is there enough automation.
To explain further - the results are too random (some would say serendipitous, if they got a good shot) with a Holga, because there aren't enough controls, nor is there enough automation.
As far as automation goes, I think it would be better to have too much than no control at all because a camera with autoexposure, and even autofocus, would facilitate learning composition at least - one could be reasonably sure of getting acceptable exposures and focus, and concentrate on composition. With the Holga there is only minimal control over either. That's not to say that someone who knows photography and the capabilities and limitations of a Holga can't get good shots, quite the contrary. I just don't think a Holga is going to give her the foundation in photography she needs, or meaningful results that will further her interests and expand her knowledge.
Having said that, I really don't think a fully automated camera would be best either - just better than one with inadequate controls or no controls at all. I'm just saying that at least the automation could let one concentrate on composition. A better option, I think, would be a cheap SLR or compact rangefinder with AE and manual exposure, and manual focus.
That's just my 2 cents.
Good luck!
To explain further - the results are too random (some would say serendipitous, if they got a good shot) with a Holga, because there aren't enough controls, nor is there enough automation.
As far as automation goes, I think it would be better to have too much than no control at all because a camera with autoexposure, and even autofocus, would facilitate learning composition at least - one could be reasonably sure of getting acceptable exposures and focus, and concentrate on composition. With the Holga there is only minimal control over either. That's not to say that someone who knows photography and the capabilities and limitations of a Holga can't get good shots, quite the contrary. I just don't think a Holga is going to give her the foundation in photography she needs, or meaningful results that will further her interests and expand her knowledge.
Having said that, I really don't think a fully automated camera would be best either - just better than one with inadequate controls or no controls at all. I'm just saying that at least the automation could let one concentrate on composition. A better option, I think, would be a cheap SLR or compact rangefinder with AE and manual exposure, and manual focus.
That's just my 2 cents.
Good luck!
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
That's it! If there's no interest in photography, a point-and-shoot... If there's interest, a manual camera... If aura, Holga. With the first, she'll get good shots. With the second she'll start a wonderful journey and learn. With the third she could get nothing and lose interest.
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
pggunn
gregor
There are good functional cameras suitable for beginners - easy to use from the beginning, yet with room to grow into, and fashionably retro, even cute, for a fashion conscious teenage girl. If I hadn't just sent my Olympus 35RC in for a CLA, I'd have already bought this (don't know the seller, but I've had my eye on this for a week) Ricoh 500 RF:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/22716/cat/3
Speaking of which, an Oly 35RC would be a good choice for her - great camera, very capable, and cute! Or an OM-1MD or an OM-2, also great, yet far more versatile with lots of room to grow. How about a Canonet QL17 or another one of the great compact fixed lens RF's from the '70's? Or another good SLR choice might be a Pentax K1000. The possibilities are endless. Guide her a little, let her look at the possibilities and let her choose.
Again, just friendly advice, my opinion, not dogma.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/22716/cat/3
Speaking of which, an Oly 35RC would be a good choice for her - great camera, very capable, and cute! Or an OM-1MD or an OM-2, also great, yet far more versatile with lots of room to grow. How about a Canonet QL17 or another one of the great compact fixed lens RF's from the '70's? Or another good SLR choice might be a Pentax K1000. The possibilities are endless. Guide her a little, let her look at the possibilities and let her choose.
Again, just friendly advice, my opinion, not dogma.
EcoLeica
Check out my blog!!!
She will have so much fun with a Holga! but if you do decide to buy one, make sure you get one of Randy from holgamods http://www.holgamods.com/
pggunn
gregor
Ahem, not that I'm a teenage girl, or that I know that much about them, despite having raised one! :bang:
pggunn
gregor
Hi,
Of course you may be right. I actually have two of them, one modified with a pinhole. And I do enjoy them very much. Sometimes the results are stunningly beautiful and unique - there's nothing else quite like a Holga.
Yet, I still don't think a Holga is the right camera for a beginner, though I admit that I may be, and often am, wrong. I suspect that for most people the Holga is not the right choice for starting out in photography, but it may be perfect for some. And for those for whom it is perfect, they might become better photographers than the rest of us! Or maybe not.
Think I'll just have another beer and finish spotting these negatives. I'm beginning to think too much!
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi, Have you thought about the other camera with "Lomo" on the front? Meaning the Cosmic or Smenta "Symbol" which is a very simple camera with only manual controls but designed to use the sunny 16 rule. You set the aperture when setting the film speed and then chose a weather symbol and it sets the shutter speed. Plus zone focusing but the controls are designed so that one side is shutter speeds and the other side of the thing is weather symbols, so it can be used as a pure manual. You'll like it if it's not appreciated.
Beyond that it gets complex. You've a lot of unappreciated P&S's to chose from and the ones from the mid 90's are very nice if boringly well designed to take the fun out of it; so you get AF and "P" mode all the time. But one or two allow a simple over of the things. The Konica Z-up 110, Canon Z70W, Minolta Riva Zooms etc...
Then there's older and perhaps (who knows?) cooler or cuter ones like the Olympus XA2 or XA3 and so on. Or even something like a FED 1...
I'll wish you luck with the decision.
Regards, David
Beyond that it gets complex. You've a lot of unappreciated P&S's to chose from and the ones from the mid 90's are very nice if boringly well designed to take the fun out of it; so you get AF and "P" mode all the time. But one or two allow a simple over of the things. The Konica Z-up 110, Canon Z70W, Minolta Riva Zooms etc...
Then there's older and perhaps (who knows?) cooler or cuter ones like the Olympus XA2 or XA3 and so on. Or even something like a FED 1...
I'll wish you luck with the decision.
Regards, David
hipsterdufus
Photographer?
I'm going to have to agree with David on this suggestion. The XA2 is a great camera for a beginner that just wants to have fun with their photography. And it's pretty foolproof to get good results. Just make sure you get the flash unit with it. It will encourage her to really enjoy film and then perhaps make the move to the next level in photography by purchasing a rangefinder. :angel:
dmr
Registered Abuser
I'm going to have to disagree with most of you here. (I assume that almost none of you have ever been a teenage girl!) 
If she wants to try the lo-fi Diana/Holga/Lomo/whatever, then get her one! Don't try to convince her to do things your way. Let her do what she wants with what she thinks she wants. Let her learn by doing.
If later she wants a Real Camera<tm>, then get one for her, but don't force it on her.
Trust me on this one, gang!
If she wants to try the lo-fi Diana/Holga/Lomo/whatever, then get her one! Don't try to convince her to do things your way. Let her do what she wants with what she thinks she wants. Let her learn by doing.
If later she wants a Real Camera<tm>, then get one for her, but don't force it on her.
Trust me on this one, gang!
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hipsterdufus
Photographer?
I'm going to have to disagree with most of you here. (I assume that almost none of you have ever been a teenage girl!)
If she wants to try the lo-fi Diana/Holga/Lomo/whatever, then get her one! Don't try to convince her to do things your way. Let her do what she wants with what she thinks she wants. Let her learn by doing.
If later she wants a Real Camera<tm>, then get one for her, but don't force it on her.
Trust me on this one, gang!
Another consideration is cost and availability of 120 film processing in your area. It's getting really expensive here and there's only one local lab that does it (a pro lab). Is she really going to want to send her film out and wait? I know when I was 14, I wouldn't have been able to stand doing that. Also, how many 14 year olds can deal with expensive pro film processing? I know there's a Holga 135 camera, though I don't have any personal experience with it. Maybe that's the way to go? :shrug:
dmr
Registered Abuser
You bring up a good point. Where, exactly, do all of those lo-fi fans get their film processed? Do they use pro labs, or do they do it themselves, or do they have a special lo-fi lab?
Around here, there is a shop which does a few runs of 120 every week, but it's $8 and change for a DO/CD.
Well, when I was 14 we didn't have one-hour minilabs. We had next-day B&W but it was several days for color, and we lived with it.
I had the Brownie Starflash, but I borrowed my dad's Monitor occasionally (I could actually guess focus and exposure at that age) and when he would trust me with it, my brother's Pentax. (HV or something like that.) IIRC, it was something like $.99 to develop/print a roll of B&W back then. For a kid, yes, that was Real Money<tm>.
xxloverxx
Shoot.
I'd buy the Trip — higher chance of "better" results (or a smoother transition from the digital camera to film), more shots on a roll, smaller, and less costly in terms of film.
Then again, if she wants "that look", get a Holga.
Then again, if she wants "that look", get a Holga.
Kiyoshi
Convicted Film Addict.
Blackbird Fly TLR
Blackbird Fly TLR
If i were buying a film camera for a teenager who had already expressed interest in a toy-film camera like a holga, i'd go for the Blackbird Fly TLR. These are modern toy-like TLRs that come in different colors and allow you to shoot 35mm film in a square-like format. It's basically a unique and stylish film point and shoot that sets itself apart.
To me, it's a film camera that would appeal to teens her age. (it's also not a large/heavy object she'd have to lug around. it's pretty small)
toy camera's like this one are great because they'll allow her to focus on just the fun of photography, on composition and on the results exposed film will give her (while at the same time, looking "cool") the Oly Trip and such are great cameras, but IMO, are the next step if/when she decides she's hooked on film photography.
http://blackbirdflycamera.com/
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/596252-REG/Blackbird_30135_Blackbird_Fly_35mm_Twin_Lens.html
http://www.amazon.com/Blackbird-35mm-Twin-Reflex-Camera/dp/B001OGKXDS
http://www.flickr.com/groups/830027@N25/
Blackbird Fly TLR
If i were buying a film camera for a teenager who had already expressed interest in a toy-film camera like a holga, i'd go for the Blackbird Fly TLR. These are modern toy-like TLRs that come in different colors and allow you to shoot 35mm film in a square-like format. It's basically a unique and stylish film point and shoot that sets itself apart.
To me, it's a film camera that would appeal to teens her age. (it's also not a large/heavy object she'd have to lug around. it's pretty small)
toy camera's like this one are great because they'll allow her to focus on just the fun of photography, on composition and on the results exposed film will give her (while at the same time, looking "cool") the Oly Trip and such are great cameras, but IMO, are the next step if/when she decides she's hooked on film photography.
http://blackbirdflycamera.com/
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/596252-REG/Blackbird_30135_Blackbird_Fly_35mm_Twin_Lens.html
http://www.amazon.com/Blackbird-35mm-Twin-Reflex-Camera/dp/B001OGKXDS
http://www.flickr.com/groups/830027@N25/
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Armoured
Well-known
Get her an M9 or a D700, and then hope she hates it and returns it to you )
But I strongly suspect getting her what she asked for is a better first step - and then offering to lend her something like an OM-2n or something when she wants to try something else - is a better solution.
I have a friend who admired my old Rolleicord copy and asked me to get her one. Instead (after checking with her) I gave her an OM-2S, figuring a meter and auto-mode was needed. Different age group, but she's loving it.
For those who grew up on digital and small point and shoots, the look of a bog-standard 50mm lens wide-open is a revelation! Throw black and white into the mix, and it's a whole new world.
But to me the funniest bit was I threw in an ugly old black-and-orange strap (with that special shade of orange that only seemed to be manufactured in the 70s), and that was an even bigger hit than the camera. So much so that my wife was jealous I gave away the strap.
But I strongly suspect getting her what she asked for is a better first step - and then offering to lend her something like an OM-2n or something when she wants to try something else - is a better solution.
I have a friend who admired my old Rolleicord copy and asked me to get her one. Instead (after checking with her) I gave her an OM-2S, figuring a meter and auto-mode was needed. Different age group, but she's loving it.
For those who grew up on digital and small point and shoots, the look of a bog-standard 50mm lens wide-open is a revelation! Throw black and white into the mix, and it's a whole new world.
But to me the funniest bit was I threw in an ugly old black-and-orange strap (with that special shade of orange that only seemed to be manufactured in the 70s), and that was an even bigger hit than the camera. So much so that my wife was jealous I gave away the strap.
