Limitations of black and white 120 film.

Keith

Keith

The best camera is one that still works!
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If you think about it we now only have two readily available versatile 400 ISO black and white films ... and by versatile I mean something that is capable of being pushed a couple of stops and can still give you a predictable, acceptable result.

HP5 pushes very well to 1600 as does Tri-X ... Neopan 400 is terrific at 1600 but this excellent film appears to be all but gone as B&H and Freestyle no longer seem to list it? T-max is an aquired taste and I don't see it being pushed much and Delta 400 is sort of in the same boat ... some love it some don't!

Foma 400 ... forget it, it's marginal at it's box speed and sees to lack quality control IMO! Delta 3200 ... I've never seen anything from it that impressed me!

So that's it, or so it seems! ... if you want a flexible black and white 400 film that allows you to make the most of your medium format gear in all conditions, you have two choices!
 
I think that's an overly glum analysis, personally. I'm using Neopan in 120 at the moment. HP5 and TriX are fine too.

TMY2 sort of aggravates me in 35mm, but I'd imagine that in 120 you can't see the grain, so I'd be fine with it. Tonally it's fine. Delta 400 is fine too really.

Then there's the chromogenic films.

I only really need one :D
 
tmax 400? (the new stuff.) Is frickin' amazing in my not so humble opinion, and flexible as all get out. Not tri-x overexpose by 3 stops flexible but, very adaptable depending on your developing regime and sharp as all get out. It pushes fine, and it's actually a little faster than 400.
 
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I disagree. Tmax 400 is an incredible film in medium format, I shoot a lot of it. It pushes to 1600 fine in Tmax Developer. I have not tried pushing it in anything else. I don't really think there are any 35mm 400 speed BW films that are available that are not also made in 120 size, except possibly Neopan 400 (if it is indeed gone as some fear).

Here's Tmax 400 at 1600. Its 35mm size, but I think the 120 size would look similar but with finer grain at any given print size.
jacob1.jpg


Here's one from Delta 3200, just to show that it can make great photos too. 120 size in my Hasselblad. My grandpa a few months before he died. EI-1600 in Tmax Developer.
grandpa-april08-1.jpg


Here's a 35mm Delta 3200 shot. I like it too. EI-1600 in Tmax Developer again.
kevins-stove.jpg
 
Keith,

In my own personal experience, Tri-X with Rodinal will let you push the heck out of Tri-X, all the way to 25,600, if needed. Tri-X has been so versatile in 120, that it is the only 400 film I have ever used. A friend of mine pushes Delta 400 to 3200 routinely with great results... here is his Flickrstream - Mark487. The only other 120 film that I shoot any amount of is Efke R25.

Why you would need any other 400 speed film than Tri-X?
 
Keith said:
if you want a flexible black and white 400 film that allows you to make the most of your medium format gear in all conditions, you have two choices!
Click to expand...

Well, you can always use HP5 if you insist on push processing, and XP2 for everything else.
 
wintoid said:
I think that's an overly glum analysis, personally. I'm using Neopan in 120 at the moment. HP5 and TriX are fine too.

TMY2 sort of aggravates me in 35mm, but I'd imagine that in 120 you can't see the grain, so I'd be fine with it. Tonally it's fine. Delta 400 is fine too really.

Then there's the chromogenic films.

I only really need one :D
Click to expand...



Now there's a statement you don't hear often around here! :D

So who is selling Neopna 400 still ... certainly not the suppliers I've been dealing with?

I discounted the chromogenics for specific reasons ... not everyone wants to go the C41 route and I don't know if you can actually push them that successfully? I do really like HP5 at 1600 ... much more so than at it's rated speed.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I disagree. Tmax 400 is an incredible film in medium format, I shoot a lot of it. It pushes to 1600 fine in Tmax Developer. I have not tried pushing it in anything else. I don't really think there are any 35mm 400 speed BW films that are available that are not also made in 120 size, except possibly Neopan 400 (if it is indeed gone as some fear).

Here's Tmax 400 at 1600. Its 35mm size, but I think the 120 size would look similar but with finer grain at any given print size.
jacob1.jpg


Here's one from Delta 3200, just to show that it can make great photos too. 120 size in my Hasselblad. My grandpa a few months before he died. EI-1600 in Tmax Developer.
grandpa-april08-1.jpg


Here's a 35mm Delta 3200 shot. I like it too. EI-1600 in Tmax Developer again.
kevins-stove.jpg
Click to expand...


Thanks for posting those Chris ... what's the grain like on the Tmax at 1600 when you zero in on it?
 
Eh, I just fell in love with Fomapan 100 in Rodinal. Maybe not the most versatile but I love the results when shooting it at box speed.

Is the real question here just 'what films can be pushed'? I ask as I've been happy with P3200 for high speed and the combo above for lower speeds (though I haven't tried pan f yet - not enough sunshine here in Seattle :)). There are plenty of great films out there if you ignore pushability...
 
With MF lenses not being noted for speed it can be an issue depending on your shooting preferences. There's something about the grain in Delta 3200 that doesn't appeal to me ... it seems to have a rather gritty look!
 
Keith said:
Now there's a statement you don't hear often around here! :D

So who is selling Neopna 400 still ... certainly not the suppliers I've been dealing with?

I discounted the chromogenics for specific reasons ... not everyone wants to go the C41 route and I don't know if you can actually push them that successfully? I do really like HP5 at 1600 ... much more so than at it's rated speed.
Click to expand...

I get mine from Fujilab or 7dayshop (through gritted teeth) here in the UK.

I've rated 35mm BW400CN and XP2Super at 1600 before and it was fine for me. Again, I'd imagine 120 is superb, but have no real experience.
 
I've never actually developed black and white C41 .. I've done plenty of colour with no problems. I have some 35mm BW400CN in the freezer that I may try pushing a couple of stops and see what happens!
 
most versatile combo is ISO 100 film and steady hands ;) ok, Tri-x in Rodinal look pretty too, and it have its own character. Delta 3200 is very specific, I have to be in mood to use it, cause images look somehow dirty.
 
maddoc said:
I have just discovered Delta3200 in 120 and quite like it at 1600ISO (HC-110 "B")

126200082.jpg
Click to expand...


Now that is good .. I can honestly say that's the first time I've seen a Delta 3200 image I liked the look of!

Food for thought Gabor ... thanks. :)
 
Keith, thank you ! Very welcome :)

Developing was according to the massive dev chart, 9min at 20 degrees Celsius, first minute constant then every minute 10 seconds agitation.
 
I thought it was "official" that Fuji had to stop the Neopan 400 in 120.
Something to do with dangerous chemicals used only on the 120, not the 35mm.
 
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