FrozenInTime
Well-known
Next month, I'm thinking of travelling on Amtrak's California Zephyr from San Francisco (Emeryville) to Chicago then on to New York - about 72 hours constantly on the move.
Anyone done this - any advice ?
I was planning on paying up for a sleeper 'roomette' - otherwise I would be half dead by the time I got to the other end.
Will there be enough to see and keep me motivated ?
Photography-wise I'm thinking about something equivalent to Lee Friedlander's 'America by Car' - the book of which I saw at SFMOMA today.
( and is also referred to in this thread http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=94766 ).
Though I will try to add a bit of variation in viewing window and include interiors and as many shots of the other travellers and staff as I can.
( I presume there are not any stupid no photography rules )
Due to the cost of the sleeper part of the rail fare, I think I will have to return by air - but that could provide a good, but brief, contrasting viewpoint.
I thought about taking the Hasselblad SWC, but prior experience with Fuji 800Z and pushed Tri-X makes me think I will struggle with interior shots as the light fades.
A wobbly train will only make matters worse.
I could also go really light and just take a Ricoh GRDIII.
But the small sensor, at least on previous plane journeys, has a remarkable ability to show up dirt, scratches and ice on the windows.
I'm also a bit on edge over it's dynamic range especially at higher ISOs.
I'm now leaning towards a one camera, one lens, one film approach:
Leica M6, a 20-box of Fuji Press 800 and the 21mm Summilux.
I will also throw in a 3 stop ND filter.
It would be interesting to hear what gear you would take/recommend for such a journey.
PS. It was only last November that I move to the US from Scotland, and this will be my first big road trip over here.
Anyone done this - any advice ?
I was planning on paying up for a sleeper 'roomette' - otherwise I would be half dead by the time I got to the other end.
Will there be enough to see and keep me motivated ?
Photography-wise I'm thinking about something equivalent to Lee Friedlander's 'America by Car' - the book of which I saw at SFMOMA today.
( and is also referred to in this thread http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=94766 ).
Though I will try to add a bit of variation in viewing window and include interiors and as many shots of the other travellers and staff as I can.
( I presume there are not any stupid no photography rules )
Due to the cost of the sleeper part of the rail fare, I think I will have to return by air - but that could provide a good, but brief, contrasting viewpoint.
I thought about taking the Hasselblad SWC, but prior experience with Fuji 800Z and pushed Tri-X makes me think I will struggle with interior shots as the light fades.
A wobbly train will only make matters worse.
I could also go really light and just take a Ricoh GRDIII.
But the small sensor, at least on previous plane journeys, has a remarkable ability to show up dirt, scratches and ice on the windows.
I'm also a bit on edge over it's dynamic range especially at higher ISOs.
I'm now leaning towards a one camera, one lens, one film approach:
Leica M6, a 20-box of Fuji Press 800 and the 21mm Summilux.
I will also throw in a 3 stop ND filter.
It would be interesting to hear what gear you would take/recommend for such a journey.
PS. It was only last November that I move to the US from Scotland, and this will be my first big road trip over here.
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ampguy
Veteran
uh, street photography on a cross country train? Maybe not a great idea ...
Papercut
Well-known
Donald, sounds like fun.
My only thought is that Friedlander with the SWC was in a car, and able to get up close to what he was shooting. I've never ridden the zephyr, so I can't say for sure, but I suspect the train is going to be going through a lot of wide open spaces, so the 21mm may reduce outside scenery to nothingness simply because of the distances. If that isn't the look you want, you may want to throw in a 35/28 so that outside elements (that aren't smack up against the train) are still visible in your shots. On the other hand, you may want "nothingness" outside.
My only thought is that Friedlander with the SWC was in a car, and able to get up close to what he was shooting. I've never ridden the zephyr, so I can't say for sure, but I suspect the train is going to be going through a lot of wide open spaces, so the 21mm may reduce outside scenery to nothingness simply because of the distances. If that isn't the look you want, you may want to throw in a 35/28 so that outside elements (that aren't smack up against the train) are still visible in your shots. On the other hand, you may want "nothingness" outside.
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FrozenInTime
Well-known
Kevin and JSU,
I do have a good book with a lot of "nothingness" - panoramas of Tibetan plateaus by Jaroslav Poncar.
But you make a good point : I would have to take what I'm given - not having any ability to manoeuvre.
Damn then two lenses - does than mean I should take two bodies ... minimalism is a difficult state to achieve.
ampguy,
So then, if I'm not totally discrete and respectful, I will get thrown off ( or worse ) mid-journey ?
I do have a good book with a lot of "nothingness" - panoramas of Tibetan plateaus by Jaroslav Poncar.
But you make a good point : I would have to take what I'm given - not having any ability to manoeuvre.
Damn then two lenses - does than mean I should take two bodies ... minimalism is a difficult state to achieve.
ampguy,
So then, if I'm not totally discrete and respectful, I will get thrown off ( or worse ) mid-journey ?
ampguy
Veteran
hi
hi
not sure about the rail policies, but I'd check them out, and be courteous to the other passengers, maybe ask them before photographing them, just my thoughts.
hi
not sure about the rail policies, but I'd check them out, and be courteous to the other passengers, maybe ask them before photographing them, just my thoughts.
Fast lenses would be useful, considering that half the time it will be dark outside. There will be some interesting shots as the train slows through an urban area, and you have a view of the city and rail yards, sometimes at night.
I've done a couple of trips each way, Seattle to Chicago, change to the New York Central, off at Syracuse NY. It's rather like being on an airplane for three days, and I recall the air circulation system as unpleasant: cool and dry constantly, no outside smells or temperature variety. Dull and deadening.
But a mission with a camera could make it much more interesting... My trips were before I had any interest in photography, just going to and from college.
Oh, and I didn't have a sleeper ticket, just slept in my seat. This has the advantage that you'll be roused by city lights and/or change in the motion of the train, for night photo ops.
Edit: Another thought from remembering photos I shot from a train between Paris and Brussels... You'll want to keep your shutter speed high or get motion-blur on things closer to the train, rather like shooting out the side of a moving car.
I've done a couple of trips each way, Seattle to Chicago, change to the New York Central, off at Syracuse NY. It's rather like being on an airplane for three days, and I recall the air circulation system as unpleasant: cool and dry constantly, no outside smells or temperature variety. Dull and deadening.
But a mission with a camera could make it much more interesting... My trips were before I had any interest in photography, just going to and from college.
Oh, and I didn't have a sleeper ticket, just slept in my seat. This has the advantage that you'll be roused by city lights and/or change in the motion of the train, for night photo ops.
Edit: Another thought from remembering photos I shot from a train between Paris and Brussels... You'll want to keep your shutter speed high or get motion-blur on things closer to the train, rather like shooting out the side of a moving car.
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Papercut
Well-known
Nothingness is as good a subject as any -- minimalism within the frame to complement the minimalism of the gear? 
It's really what you're wanting. But, I do think it's easy to underestimate the distances and sense of scale, particularly in the western US.
Anyway, I'm jealous -- trains are just such a civilized form of transportation. My dad rode the zephyr from Chicago to Oakland last year, and sounded like he enjoyed it a lot.
Oh, and one last thought, if you do get thrown off, try not to land ON that 21 Summilux ... would be a crying shame to damage that!
It's really what you're wanting. But, I do think it's easy to underestimate the distances and sense of scale, particularly in the western US. Anyway, I'm jealous -- trains are just such a civilized form of transportation. My dad rode the zephyr from Chicago to Oakland last year, and sounded like he enjoyed it a lot.
Oh, and one last thought, if you do get thrown off, try not to land ON that 21 Summilux ... would be a crying shame to damage that!
lorriman
Established
I would add a polarizer to your NDGrad. Not for the sky but for getting that richer colour that comes from the cancelled reflections. If sky is in the shot you could over-expose or reduce polarisation to reduce that over-cooked sky effect, or just take it off.
__--
Well-known
Well, if you're inspired by Friedlander — and who wouldn't be? — why not stick to the SWC, but bring some Neopan 1600 along as well, which I think is a wonderful fast film? The size of the medium format negative will allow ample cropping, in case the views out of the window are too broad most of the time.
On the other hand I think that a GRD3, which I love, could be used as it has an f/1.9 lens and a terrific 21mm wide-converter, whose quality, in my view, is not much different from the Elmarit-21 ASPH — sacrilege right? For interiors, you should be able to shoot at f/1.9 and ISO 400 most of the time, and only occasionally need to go to ISO 800, owing to the huge depth of field of the lens even at full aperture. Because of this huge depth of field, I haven't seen a problem with scratches or dirt on windows unless the plane of focus is on or close to the window.
In any case, I would only use a camera, lens or film that I familiar with, as I wouldn't want to make the investment in time and money into a 72 hour rail trip with equipment with which I don't have a lot of experience.
—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria Book Project
Damaso
Photojournalist
Unless you're looking for a purely intellectual exercise I don't know why you would only take one lens. Putting a 35 or 50 in your bag won't take up much more space. Personally while an interesting lens I think a 21mm lacks the flexibility of the other lenses I mentioned. Unless it is your favorite lens or you are looking to only capture certain kinds of images I would say take along at least one other lens or use a different lens as your primary...
Have a fun trip, we look forward to seeing the results!
Have a fun trip, we look forward to seeing the results!
erik
Established
I've done a similar trip a couple of times. A sleeper at least for part of it really helps, I did it coach once, it's like sleeping in a rocking La-z-boy, you feel pretty rough by the end. You shouldn't have any problem taking pictures unless something recently has changed. You should be thoughtful of your fellow passengers and i'm sure you will be, you will be seeing them at all meals etc. for a few days. You can't help but get to know people, it can be very social. I agree with the advice to take a range of lenses. You will have a lot of time to basically take the same pictures over and over, and a lot of time to consider different approaches. Time slows down, give yourself some options. L.F. is great inspiration, but tell your own story, trains are great places to think.
monochromejrnl
Well-known
you know how you see best so bring whatever lens(es) that you fell best fits your intentions...
however, you might want to bring a backup camera (ideally M body) just in case.. it sounds like the purpose of the trip is to focus on image making so a backup would be sensible...
however, you might want to bring a backup camera (ideally M body) just in case.. it sounds like the purpose of the trip is to focus on image making so a backup would be sensible...
Damaso
Photojournalist
Just because you take more than one lens doesn't mean you have to use them. I shoot with a 50mm about 90% of the time but that other ten percent can be tricky, even more so with a 21mm. But if that's what your heart is telling you, go for it!
Arjay
Time Traveller
Careful with polarizers when shooting through window panes in the train: Many multilayer glass panes in cars and trains exhibit some polarizing action on their own, leading to ugly bright & dark patches in the image as the panes interact with the polarizer. You should better first test polarizers e.g. by photographing through a car's windshield. Of course, if you also carry a digital camera, you could do your testing on-site ...
BTW - have fun on your trip! This sounds like a very interesting way to travel and make a reportage.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
It doesn't matter what you take, just take one camera and lens and make it work. That's the challenge. If you're afraid of motion blur, learn how to use it.
Sorry to be so Zen but you are in NoCal. I'll go back to my usual crudeness momentarily.
Sorry to be so Zen but you are in NoCal. I'll go back to my usual crudeness momentarily.
kdemas
Enjoy Life.
Donald,
Sounds like a very cool little adventure! I'd probably take along a 50mm for "people shots" in the cars and one longer length, maybe a 90mm. You never know what tight window or interesting scene at the other end of the meal car might call for a little "reach".
As for the GRD... by all means I'd pop it in the bag.
Sounds like a very cool little adventure! I'd probably take along a 50mm for "people shots" in the cars and one longer length, maybe a 90mm. You never know what tight window or interesting scene at the other end of the meal car might call for a little "reach".
As for the GRD... by all means I'd pop it in the bag.
Frontman
Well-known
I did it in 1992, taking the "Sunset Limited" Amtrack from Atlanta to Los Angeles. The trip took 5 days, which included a 1 day layover in New Orleans. The trip was an interesting experience, and a great way to see the country, if there's a particular city or town which catches your eye you can step off the train and catch the next one when it arrives in a couple days (it runs or ran twice a week).
As interesting as the train trip was, only a couple of months later I hitchhiked the same route, from Atlanta to Los Angeles. The train ride was faster and more comfortable, but hitchhiking was the more interesting experience.
As interesting as the train trip was, only a couple of months later I hitchhiked the same route, from Atlanta to Los Angeles. The train ride was faster and more comfortable, but hitchhiking was the more interesting experience.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
Lorriman,
As I will only take ISO 800 film, I was thinking about a plain ND filter for playing with depth of field.
I don't want picture postcard photos - I would rather that every frame has come content that shouts out 'on a train' . The odd refection will be good for that.
However the consensus is that I should also bring along a 35 of 50 - so if I do so, a polarizer will start to become worth adding in for the reasons you mention.
If I'm lucky as Arjay mentions - I could also sometimes get some funky cross polarization effects.
Frank,
Yes trying motion blur, shake, panning, depth of field etc. , are all on my mind to fill out the time.
Mitch,
I don't think Neopan 1600 is available in 120.
Mitch and Kent,
Yes it's so tempting to slip in the GRD - it does come in really handy ( I used it a lot yesterday ).
My concept for this trip is for a consistency of feel - so it could be more difficult to achieve if the GRD is in the bag and gets into the mix.
On rail journeys in the UK, I've used the 28/50 combination before.
Using the 50mm to take pictures across and out of the opposite window, and including silhouttes of the passengers worked well, and did not arouse any complaints.
erik,
That Lay-z-boy reclining seat could be a good option for the 17 hour Chicago - New York leg, where I would be passing through more frequent cities by night
Look like I'm heading towards a 21/50 summilux two body combo.
Still my concern is that keeping an eye on valuables becomes more difficult as equipment bulks up.
I remember many years ago traveling inter-rail between Budapest a Prague, a group of gypsies getting on the train and robbing people as the slept.
The guards lost their ability to understand any English when people tried to stop them.
Time to get into detailed planning and booking...
As I will only take ISO 800 film, I was thinking about a plain ND filter for playing with depth of field.
I don't want picture postcard photos - I would rather that every frame has come content that shouts out 'on a train' . The odd refection will be good for that.
However the consensus is that I should also bring along a 35 of 50 - so if I do so, a polarizer will start to become worth adding in for the reasons you mention.
If I'm lucky as Arjay mentions - I could also sometimes get some funky cross polarization effects.
Frank,
Yes trying motion blur, shake, panning, depth of field etc. , are all on my mind to fill out the time.
Mitch,
I don't think Neopan 1600 is available in 120.
Mitch and Kent,
Yes it's so tempting to slip in the GRD - it does come in really handy ( I used it a lot yesterday ).
My concept for this trip is for a consistency of feel - so it could be more difficult to achieve if the GRD is in the bag and gets into the mix.
On rail journeys in the UK, I've used the 28/50 combination before.
Using the 50mm to take pictures across and out of the opposite window, and including silhouttes of the passengers worked well, and did not arouse any complaints.
erik,
That Lay-z-boy reclining seat could be a good option for the 17 hour Chicago - New York leg, where I would be passing through more frequent cities by night
Look like I'm heading towards a 21/50 summilux two body combo.
Still my concern is that keeping an eye on valuables becomes more difficult as equipment bulks up.
I remember many years ago traveling inter-rail between Budapest a Prague, a group of gypsies getting on the train and robbing people as the slept.
The guards lost their ability to understand any English when people tried to stop them.
Time to get into detailed planning and booking...
3rdtrick
Well-known
I travel a lot by train but never did the cross-country thing but hope to some day. The trains here are pretty safe but sometimes in stations like New York, people come on to the train to take what they can. I carry my equipment in a Domke bag and hook the strap around the seat frame or footrest. Anyone messing with it would wake me and I carry it if I go about the train. As far as photography, sometimes you can find an open vestibule but that is getting rare. I use a rubber lens hood to block out the reflections on the glass. Usually I used an 85 lens on SLR but will probably use my 50 lux if I travel with the Leica. The fast lens is good because you want a fast shutter speed for motion and shallow depth of field to clear up spots on the window glass. You will probably run across old railroaders riding the train telling old railroad stories and that may make some good people pics...
Enjoy your trip,
Pete
Enjoy your trip,
Pete
punkromance
Poor art student
I travelled a few years back all over the States by Amtrak and it was great. Bring a blanket as like Doug said the air conditioning can be pretty unfriendly at times.
Taking a Hassleblad might make photos easier as people will be more open to a stranger format, but then again you might also get a similar reaction with the Leica.
In regards to safety just use common sense. Keep the strap round your wrist when you can, don't leave it unattended when at/nearing a station. Other than that Amtrak is great. People are friendly and you'll get some great views. Take a fifty just because it's the perfect FL for shooting across an isle. Otherwise have fun with your 21.
Taking a Hassleblad might make photos easier as people will be more open to a stranger format, but then again you might also get a similar reaction with the Leica.
In regards to safety just use common sense. Keep the strap round your wrist when you can, don't leave it unattended when at/nearing a station. Other than that Amtrak is great. People are friendly and you'll get some great views. Take a fifty just because it's the perfect FL for shooting across an isle. Otherwise have fun with your 21.