35 mm summaron vertical focus

[Treadwell Sloane]

Hi there chaps!
I have had some recent issues with my leica m3 with my 35 mm summaron f2.8 with goggles.
When shooting i tend to switch between this lens and my 50mm f2 summicron. After using these lenses for about 3 months i went to use my camera and after a day of walking around London taking pictures and my vertical rangefinder patch alignment was suddenly dropped by a noticeable amount, enough to make it hard to focus properly, and half of the frame preview for 135mm was now visible.
When I saw this i tried my 50mm lens to see if it had the same issue but there were no such vertical alignment issues. However the 135 frame-line was still visible but not nearly as much.
I walked around for the rest of the day using the 50mm summicron. The next day I pick up my camera, and fitted the 35mm summaron to see if it was still giving me these vertical focusing issues, and discovered that it was back to normal! I used it for a few days after that and the vertical alignment when out and in adjustment once more!
I called my camera shop who i bought it from Aperture photographic in London, from which i have a years guarantee, and they were not at all keen to take it for repair when it was currently working even though it went out and back in to adjustment twice in a matter of days.
This was two weeks ago, and today i have been out with my camera and switched to the 35mm googles and its out again!
I have used the camera every weekend since purchasing it and i do take care of it when doing so.
I was wondering if anyone would know what might be the cause of this shift in alignment. Is it a knock making the rangefinder go out? or the lens? ( however i did try this lens on an m2 body at the camera shop when i made my query and it was fine at the same time it was out of adjustment on my m3) I have read that the screw to the left of the large rangefinder window has a vertical alignment adjuster. Is this true?
Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Hanson

 

[ferider]

Welcome to the forum, Hanson, and sorry for your troubles.

Sounds like your M3 needs to be looked at in a shop. Yes, you can adjust vertical alignment yourself (behind the screw that you mention), but the fact that your problem comes and goes, and the fact that you see 135mm frame-lines (which you should not with either 50 and googled 35) makes this more of a professional service call, IMO.

Best,

Roland.

 

[Ronald M]

If vertical allignment with the 50 is OK. the RF is OK.
If vertical allignment is off with only the 35, then the round goggle need to be adjusted. there is a prism in there that controls that.


If you get 135 frame lines, there is something wrong with the frame actuation in the camera or the lens has been modified.

Next time it goes off, take it back while it is misbehaving.

 

[Treadwell Sloane]

Yeh thats what i thought and thanks for you thoughts. I am a little scared of unscrewing it and poking around when i am not really aware of what im doing. Guess what? the vertical alignment went back to normal just now... this seriously is getting on my wik.

The 135 framelines being visible is just annoying. I bought the camera body from a shop labeling it as a user. It and the two lenses all have a one year guarantee but they are not keen at all in honouring this. i got the whole setup for 1200 including vc lightmeter. 400 was for the body. They have taken my camera once already for a sticky shutter at the slower speeds, and Im starting to feel like a nuisance customer when go back with more problems. Should I expect them to fix this issue within a guarantee?

thanks!

Hanson

 

[Treadwell Sloane]

Thanks for you point ronald! I have noticed that the round goggle can be wiggled within the body of the goggle causing the vertical alignment to move around so i guess that is the issue. Should it be wiggle-able? I can see that the rectangular goggle is more secure.
Also is it advisable to unscrew the round goggle cap to inspect myself? Or is this a bad idea?

Hanson

 

[ferider]

The shop should fix the 135mm frameline issue for you under waranty, IMO.

But it seams you found the reason for the vertical alignment issue with the Summaron - this is good; it means your camera is basically OK and usable.

The round eye of the googles is adjusted via 3 screws that are sitting in the black metal of the googles, hidden behind black rubber seals. You can poke out the rubber with a thin screw driver, and then adjust the round eye by tightening/loosening the 3 screws behind. This can change both vertical and horizontal alignment of the Summaron.

Hope that makes sense.

Roland.

 

[Treadwell Sloane]

Thanks for the advice! I am a little unclear as to which three screws you mean. Are these inside the round goggle and can be reached once the circular cap that houses the outer glass is unscrewed.

Yes i am not happy with these two issues but they told me at the shop I should just "see how I get on with it" giving me lots of bull about how goggles are "never really that accurate anyway" and also asking if i had dropped it, which put doubt in my mind. They didnt even acknowledge the frame lines being visible as an issue as it basically "worked".

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thanks for the advice! I am a little unclear as to which three screws you mean. Are these inside the round goggle and can be reached once the circular cap that houses the outer glass is unscrewed.

Yes i am not happy with these two issues but they told me at the shop I should just "see how I get on with it" giving me lots of bull about how goggles are "never really that accurate anyway" and also asking if i had dropped it, which put doubt in my mind. They didnt even acknowledge the frame lines being visible as an issue as it basically "worked".

The screws Ronald M mentions can be found in the black housing of the goggles, around the round window.
However, I would not recommend to touch these screws yourself. The prism Ronald M mentions is glued-in and fixed at the factory. When the prism is loose, you will not be able to fix it by turning the screws.
Send the lens to a competent repairman and spend some money to have the goggles adjusted. That is worth the effort because the Summaron 35 f/2.8 is one of the best lenses ever made by Leitz.

Erik.

 

[Mister E]

Yeah the goggles are out of alignment.

 

[Treadwell Sloane]

Yeh I'm going to try to get them fixed under my guarantee. I am also concerned about infinity focus on the 35 mm googles summaron. At infinity the rangefinder patch is in focus at max a cars length away and beyond I cannot focus. With my 50 mm f2 summicron I can focus to things on the horizon accurately. Is this how the 35 mm should behave at infinity or is this another issue?

Regards

Hanson

 

[Mister E]

I bought a used V1 35/2 goggled and it was all screwed up. I just promptly returned it.

 

[rodt16s]

I had the same with the DR goggles, in my case the round lens was loose, had them fixed/aligned and now they're spot on.
Basically you shouldn't notice a difference between the goggled and non-goggled.
Worth getting right as Erik stated, cracking lens and better min focus dist than the M2 version

 

[Treadwell Sloane]

I cant believe it! I have had a closer look at my goggles and i am almost completely sure that the rectangular prism is cracked in the bottom right corner. The silver metal external housing of the rectangular goggle was always slightly bent from the point when I bought it, due to some past damage I presume.

I have taken good care of this and cant see how i have done this myself! Are the prisms easily breakable and also are they expensive to replace?

Im wondering if the fact that the metal frame of the rectangular prism is bent, it has caused the prism inside to be more susceptible damage as a result of not being properly housed.

THis seems to be getting worse every time I look..