Can CV Make a Smaller 35 1.2?

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I was surprised to hear the VC 35 1.2 has been discontinued by Cosina. Seemed to me like one of the stars of their line-up.

But the news made me wonder: What steps could CV take to create a smaller 35 1.2 mkII (just enough that it would no longer always be couched as a 'big' lens - let's say shrunk to the size of a lux 50) without sacrificing the signature look that appeals to so many of us?

Would going non-asph or limiting the max aperture to 1.4 help? (I'd happily give up the half stop for compactness and, to me, what the CV 35 1.4 does at 1.4 isn't what I'm after.)

Can any aspects of the current (brilliant) optical design be applied to a smaller lens or would it require a complete do over?
 
Even if they could make it smaller, it would be different. People would no doubt believe the older one is better and the new one would no doubt have focus shift... 😉
 
I think it's not a matter of 'can' but 'will' they make a smaller 35/1.2?

Actually I've been shooting with one on and off since it was first released back around 10 years ago. Could be more, so the devoted following has been much longer than 2 years, and I know I'm not the only one. Over the years I often would sell it cause I wanted the Leica due to it's name, focus tab and higher contrast wide open, but would ultimately come back to the Nokton because of it's unique signature and equal sharpness with the Summilux from f/2.

If Leica can't/won't do their own version, then it's probably safe to say that it's not economically possible...although having said that, Leica probably said that a 1.2 model with exceptional quality in a usable size couldn't be made for an economical price. If so, they were wrong. The Nokton is my favorite lens ever made, if you can tell 😉 I have a feeling that Voigtlander has something in the works. My reason? Tom A has yet to comment on this topic....or maybe he has a life 😉
 
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Tom previously commented on the size factor, saying it was impossible.

Perhaps Zeiss is planning a CV-made ZM 35/1.4, and CV is discontinuing the Nokton to allow a market for the ZM. CV generally doesn't make products that compete directly with the ZM line.

Or, it may be a marketing move by CV. I expect used prices will reach US$15-800. When CV is ready, they can reintroduce the lens, at a much higher price.
 
noimmunity said:
Tom previously commented on the size factor, saying it was impossible.

Perhaps Zeiss is planning a CV-made ZM 35/1.4, and CV is discontinuing the Nokton to allow a market for the ZM. CV generally doesn't make products that compete directly with the ZM line.

Or, it may be a marketing move by CV. I expect used prices will reach US$15-800. When CV is ready, they can reintroduce the lens, at a much higher price.
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Hopefully you're right
 
JSU said:
I just hope that Cosina Voigtlander isn't shifting their priorities to the M4/3 realm, apparently they are enjoying some success with a recently released 25/0.95 for the smaller format.

With the departure of the 35/1.7, 28/1.9, 50/1.5 and now the 35/1.2, does Cosina Voigtlander still offer any aspheric rangefinder lenses besides the 15/4.5 & 12/5.6?
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Either way they 'had' lenses that rivaled the best in the business from Leica and now they have very little to offer, so one does begin to think whether Zeiss is stepping up to the plate here.
 
if zeiss make a zm 35mm f1.4 it will definitely rival leica's market share!

i for one will be queuing to buy it!
 
I'm really afraid now that I won't be able to afford a Nokton 35/1.2 anymore ... I passed on it so far as I'm quite happy with my 28/1.9 + 50/1.5 setup on the M8. But secretly (or overtly, really), I do lust for a 35/1.2, and did from the beginning. I saw some go on eBay around 600 € (used), but that was almost half a year ago. Recently, I haven't seen any used 35/1.2s come by, and if they did, prices were at least 100 € higher, if not more. And I think prices are surely going to rise once the last new stocks have been sold. Then, in a year or so, when I think I could scrap together 600 €, the lens will sell for double that, and I'm back to square one.

Goodbye Nokton? (Or maybe all isn't that bad and a much better, new lens is coming indeed?)
 
JSU said:
Can someone elaborate on the relationship or direct me to a prior discussion of the same, detailing both names Voigtlander and Zeiss and their relationship with Cosina.

Does Cosina own the trademark Voigtlander? Does Cosina do subcontracted manufacturing for a separate company known as Zeiss or is Zeiss also under the same corporate umbrella as Cosina?
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I may be wrong, but this is how I understand it - Cosina licenses the Voigtlander name from some German company who owns the trademark, and uses it for their own designs. Zeiss contracts some of their manufacturing out to Cosina.
 
richardhkirkando said:
I may be wrong, but this is how I understand it - Cosina licenses the Voigtlander name from some German company who owns the trademark, and uses it for their own designs. Zeiss contracts some of their manufacturing out to Cosina.
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I've recently read somewhere (I would of course forget where ...) that in fact Zeiss are the owners of the Voigtländer brand name. So in effect it all belongs Zeiss, and Cosina does the manufacturing.
 
efix said:
I've recently read somewhere (I would of course forget where ...) that in fact Zeiss are the owners of the Voigtländer brand name. So in effect it all belongs Zeiss, and Cosina does the manufacturing.
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No. Richardhkirkando has it right.

Voigtländer name is owned by Ringphoto.

Cosina has licensed the right to make Voigtländer RF cameras and lenses,

Zeiss makes some Zeiss lenses and licenses the name (under Zeiss QC) to others.

Cheers,

R.
 
leicashot said:
Either way they 'had' lenses that rivaled the best in the business from Leica and now they have very little to offer, so one does begin to think whether Zeiss is stepping up to the plate here.
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It's the price difference between the Zeiss and CV offerings that's a killer. The 35/1.7 was great for the price and I bet a Zeiss 35/1.4 (or whatever) would be much higher priced than the CV 1.2.

FWIW, the cv 35/1.2 is my favorite across every system I have. Simply a spectacular lens.
 
Maybe the CV 35 1.7 is the closest thing to what I'm talking about (a balance between graceful rendition and compactness). I'd like to try the 1.7 some time. Still though, there's just something the 35 1.2 does that I haven't seen replicated in any other 35mm format lens. I think, like Kodachrome, it has a striking ability to capture light's ineffable qualities.
 
Leica probably said that a 1.2 model with exceptional quality in a usable size couldn't be made for an economical price
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I think the CV 35/1.2 is the sort of lens Leica won't make anymore. They've abandoned the "Mandler-look" signatures of their past in pursuit of an optical perfection that can be a bit clinical. I bet if Leica did choose to make a 35/1.2, it would take 62mm filters, be technically near-perfect but somehow boring wide-open, and would cost $5,000. So yeah, the CV 35/1.2 is kind of a bargain even at its new price. 😀
 
Carl Zeiss AG is a very large company, dwarfing Cosina. It produces numerous items, and I believe photographic lenses comprise the smaller portion of the business.

Cosina is a contract manufacturer for Zeiss, making lenses and bodies. You will never find the Cosina name on any Zeiss body or lens.

I believe that any time you increase the speed of a lens, it gets larger, not smaller.

From the early days, Zeiss had a financial stake in Voigtlander (the German one) and finally assumed it fully in the 1960s. After the collapse of Zeiss Ikon in the early 1970s, Voigtlander passed to Rollei, which made several Rollei and Voigtlander models side by side: among them the post-SL 35 SLRs (the ones after the first Rolleiflex SL 35 model) and the Rollei XF 35/Voigtlander VF 135.
 
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Smaller lenses almost invariably have less even illumination and poorer performance wide open, and (sometimes) more focus shift. So yes, of course it's possible. The question is the price you pay.

Cheers,

R.
 
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