Mamiya Super Press 23 Question

[raytoei@gmail.com]

I made a swap with another chap today thereby preserving my New Year's Resolution on not buying more cameras 🙂

A quick question, the roll film back is the kurl knob "Roll Film Adapter 6x7", found in the previous model of the standard Mamiya Press. I ran through 2 rolls of 120 format, but both negatives came out completely black, indicating a massive light leak somewhere.

I downloaded the previous version of the Mamiya press manual and followed the installation and usage of the roll film back.

Question:

a. Is the lack of a dark slide the cause of the problem ? I closed the film back and attached to the camera once the film arrows were aligned.

b. I read that gummy foam could be the cause of the problem,... what gummy foam ? I don't see any foam or rubber around the back facing the camera body or inside the film back inself.

c. I understand that the Super 23 uses M-type film back, which other film backs can be shared ? KEH has RB, RZ, 645 and Mamiya 6&7.

thanks

raytoei

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I'm not sure how the entire roll could come out completely black from a light leak. Is the shutter remaining open all the time for some reason?

 

[sevo]

Were the margins black as well? If so, I'd look for a flaw in development - all black down to the margins is a bit too much for a camera light leak, unless you have a hole big enough to put your finger through. And is the negative black or were the prints black (sorry for the dumb question, but people have stumbled over that)? Black prints/blank negatives would mean that the film was unexposed - on the Mamiya Press cameras you have to cock the shutter and transport the film separately!

You need the matching dark slides if you want to swap between loaded magazines. Slides often are mismatched and will leak - Mamiya made a variety of Press holders which take at least two considerably different slides, and to make matters worse missing slides often have been replaced with even more mismatched slides from entirely different camera types and brands. But as long as the magazine stays attached to the camera you don't need a slide at all.

The film gate is surrounded by a contact area of ground down aluminium - outside that there is a recessed area of maybe half a centimetre width which should be foam filled. If that foam is gone, you'll get all kinds of fancy leaking from the frame edge, but hardly an all-black negative, unless you leave the camera lying about in bright sunlight for an extended period of time. The same goes for the foam strips in the light traps of the magazine door - these will usually cause comet-like light trails from the edges, but can hardly fog the entire surface (even less so on 120, which is shielded by its backing paper).

You need "M" (Mamiya Press) film holders, and cannot use any others. As far as I know, they are unique to the Mamiya Press (plus some derived cameras) and Mamiya were their only maker. Mamiya also offered (and maybe sometimes even sold) Press cameras with "G" (Graflex) backs that hold RB (and Graflex) holders. Only the Universal has exchangeable backs - though replacement "G" backs are almost impossible to find, in eleven years on ebay I haven't come across three of them, and all were ridiculously priced. On all other Press series cameras one or other back (almost always a M back) is permanently attached.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Thanks Sevo / Pickett Wilson for your suggestions.

a. not development. i was so stressed that i developed another 2 rolls from the m4-p (the one you sold me), and the negatives came out okay.

b. let me check out the points mentioned above. I know that B works, I know that the leaf opens up, all the speeds + slow speeds works.

will check back later.

thanks again.

 

[sevo]

Well, what about the margins? Does the back close fully, is it missing some parts?

Last, but not least, does the camera still have its bellows?

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

attached picture 1, is reflective scan, the cleaning marks is just that, as the film is not 100% dry.

attached picture 2, is negative scan

the top object is a underexposed negative put there as reference. The second object is the 120 film from the mamiya press.

A silly question: does having a black negative the same as putting the negative wrong way round ?

raytoei

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

here's how the film holder looks like:

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

i don't think i loaded it the wrong way round because I aligned the film arrows to the roll back.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

It would be unexposed if you put it in backwards. The backing paper should be against the pressure plate, emulsion toward the lens.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Pickett Wilson, unexposed, when developed = blank and correct me if i am wrong, similar to underexposed negative except that it is 100% underexposed ?

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Right. If you develop an unexposed roll of film, it will come out clear.

 

[oftheherd]

I have never seen one of those backs so I really don't know much about then other than what I have read. I was curious to note there are no rollers where the film enters and exits the film mask. All my 6x6 backs have that. Is there a roller where the film turns up to go onto the takeup spool? I had also always thought those backs were 645, 6x6, and 6x9. This one appears to be 6x6 only.

I can't imagine what would cause the film to be completely exposed. From you photos above, it appears there are no frame lines either. Is there any chance the film is bad? How about your development, any chance you did something wrong in loading it? Quite curious.

I don't know avaiability or your financial status, but I sure would recommend getting a 6x7 or 6x9 back as soon as possible.

EDIT: For any future readers I did mean my 6x7 backs, not 6x6 since as of this time I don't have any 6x6 backs and don't anticipate I ever will.

 

[fbf]

That's a very early back. I had two before. The foam were badly deteriorated. I was too lazy to clean them so I threw them away... Then later on I found aki-asahi actually sells replacement light seal...what a bomber.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

I think but i am not sure BUT there is no foam at all on the 6x7 roll film back 🙂

I have ordered a new back..and place a small order for seals.

thanks again.

raytoei

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Guys,

just an update. I ordered seals from http://aki-asahi.com/store/
arrived in 3 days. Made a mess trying to put in the new seals into the film back.
Shot a test roll.

Success!

errr..... anyone know how to adjust the Rangefinder ? It is terribly front-focused.

 

[oftheherd]

I think I remember that maybe three years ago someone here at RFF gave some instructions. You might try a google search.

 

[Brambling]

I apologize in advance if this question has already been raised on the forum, but I did not find it.
I have a Mamiyu Press Super 23, a 100/3.5 lens (new type), 65/6.3, 150/5.6, and now I started to have a 250/5.
I want to correctly calibrate all the rangefinders of all the lenses.
If anyone can suggest a good site (especially with pictures))), I will be very grateful!
Thanks in advance.