To M6 CLA or buy lenses? Both expensive!

[anitasanger]

I have a 1986 m6 that I purchased used. It was in really good condition, so I suspect that it has seen little use. There are no physical or internal problems with the camera, everything is in working order.

I have however, had a lot of problems with many underexposed negatives. I am quite competent in using manual cameras as that's really all I've ever used. In the past, I've never had a problem with under exposed negatives.

In hopes of alleviating any possibility for mechanical failure, I decided to price a CLA. The CLA, which she called an "overhaul" will be 330$. She also explained the MP upgrade to me, which sounds very enticing, this would be an additional 250$. Total, 580$.

This is of course rather expensive and i have been debating whether or not to go through with it. I am not 100% sure that the shutter speeds are off and i have made some perfect exposures with it. But I've also made a lot of bad ones. This camera will be my primary shooter and i would really like everything to be in perfect order.

I know that this is a decision i must make on my own, but i wanted to ask for some advice before i follow through. Does this sound like a competitive price? The quote i got is from a technician who is highly regarded. Also, does the MP upgrade make a pretty significant difference as far as focusing is concerned?

If i don't do the CLA, I'll probably end up spending the money on lenses. I'm just trying to decide what the best way to proceed would be.

Thank you for any tips and or advice.

Luke

 

[stompyq]

Are you sure the meter is not off? did you check it?

 

[anitasanger]

Yes I have checked the meter in accordance with several other cameras and it seems to be dead on.

 

[35mmdelux]

If the camera has not been used much then the oils may have become goped. Leicas need to be exercised at least on a monthly basis. Your M6 is 25 yrs old and about time for a check up by a professional. Generally, its the M6TTL that has poor viewfinder needing the MP upgrade.

The CLA is a bit on the high side but the MP upgrade is consistent with known pricing. Good luck.

BTW - When I first got into Leicas my negs/slides were always under/over exposed. I almost gave up but kept trying. Often its pilot error, but I can understand a CLA at this time.

 

[stompyq]

Youxin ye CLA'd my M6 last year. The RF was slightly off and he adjusted that as well. I payed $125 total. No MP upgrade. The CLA price you've been given is a little high. Where did you get the quote from?

 

[anitasanger]

Sherry Krauter, the woman with the golden touch. 35mmdelux, could you share with me what you were doing wrong to cause the incorrect exposures when you started out with Leicas? Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming.

 

[tj01]

if there's nothing wrong with the metering, or electronics, I suggest to just get it calibrated with Youxin. If you are on a budget, skip the viewfinder upgrade.

 

[35mmdelux]

Sherry Krauter, the woman with the golden touch. 35mmdelux, could you share with me what you were doing wrong to cause the incorrect exposures when you started out with Leicas? Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming.

Sounds simple enough but I had trouble syncing up the shutter and aperture. Pilot error. The fact is that people are far too quick to blame the camera. Mine was an M4-P. Youxin is pretty inexpensive and hard to argue with that price, however.

My remedy:
1) Adjust shutter speed and leave it alone, unless change needed due to fleeting light. Work with aperture.
2) A good handheld meter.
3) If above does not work, then CLA.

You probably know this but it worked for me.

 

[anitasanger]

Does Youxin perform the MP upgrade? And what is his standrd CLA rate? Also, Sherry informed me that there are more than 10 different types of grease, along with oil installed during her CLAs. Is this a common practice, or does she go above and beyond what is typical?

 

[Mister E]

I love Sherry's work. She's hand her hands in all of my Leicas. Youxin seems like a great guy, but I've not ever dealt with him. He doesn't replace things like the frame line mask, etc that other CLAs I've seen leave alone where Sherry brings the camera back to a like new, but better.

Her prices are high, but she is the best. As for your M6, I'd put some slide film in there and see if the speeds are actually off. I had lots of M6 problems, but in reality the camera should have no issues as young as it is. If the speeds aren't off then pass on the CLA. Take the $500 and fly somewhere in South America and shoot for a week or two. Screw buying more lenses.

 

[anitasanger]

Or.....should I unload the m6 classic, save a little more and get an MP?

 

[xwhatsit]

If the meter is fine, the only other reason for underexposed negatives (apart from user error or darkroom/scanning trouble) would be shutter speeds fast.

You can check your shutter speeds first if you have a CRT TV, or a CRT monitor (set monitor refresh rate to 60Hz first). Check here: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-135.html

Seems prudent to check first before chucking money at a magic CLA.

 

[anitasanger]

Yes, i agree! That's why I'm seeking advice first. Rather than unload money for MP accessories, i may just sell the m6 and get an mp. I'm really keen on the circular focus confirmation as well. And hopefully a used mp won't need a CLA.

 

[mfogiel]

The only problem you can have is with shutter speeds. You can check that as per advice above, or by placing the camera on a tripod, and taking exposures at all shutter speeds (obviously you have to set the proper aperture to keep the exposure value constant) if the negatives will result of different density, then you have a problem with shutter speeds and the camera needs a CLA. The VF upgrade is not really necessary, unless you have problems with flare. An MP won't change your pictures, I would keep the money, or spend it on another lens. Rather, if you have problems calibrating the exposure, I would get an M7 and shoot in AE mode. In years of using AE cameras and Tri X, I never had an underexposure problem - in shooting against the light, you point the camera at the ground, lock the exposure and then shoot without any hassle. If your pictures are not good enough, work on technique before you throw the money at the equipment. I remember, that you bought a Leica becuse you wanted sharp and contrasty photo - then you said you wanted softer photos when taking portraits... Maybe, before you change the camera and lens, explore what potraits you can get with this combo, by shooting a roll of Ilford XP2 exposed at EI 200, which you can develop at a lab. It will give you very smooth skin tones and nice highlights. Learn how to expose people shots by measuring the lght off the back of your hand... Experiment with your shooting techniqie before blaming the equipment...

This has been shot on XP2 with a Planar 85/1.4, a very sharp and contrasty lens:

 

[nobbylon]

Yes, i agree! That's why I'm seeking advice first. Rather than unload money for MP accessories, i may just sell the m6 and get an mp. I'm really keen on the circular focus confirmation as well. And hopefully a used mp won't need a CLA.

Circular focus confirmation?
my thoughts for what it's worth. Forget an MP unless you have cash to burn. The M6 does exactly the same thing. Rangefinder is marginally better but in 99.9% circumstance unnoticable.
I doubt very much that the camera needs a cla. As someone before suggests, check the high speeds with an old crt tv yourself. When metering err on the side of over exposure. ie when the arrows wont extinguish in finder, make sure the one thats lit is over.
What film were you using? Colour print can usually deal with +2 -1/2 exposure if not a little more.
Maybe I've been lucky with M6's but i've never seen an m6 with speeds off by much at all.

 

[anitasanger]

An MP may not change my photographs, but a properly working camera will. I appreciate the advice, but I don't have any problem calculating proper exposure. I've been shooting tri-x on a fully manual Pentax k1000 for 13 years and have NEVER had a trouble with underexposure. It not a question of user error because I have tested the camera against multiple variables and it continues to consistently produce poor negatives. The usable images i have created have been ones that i have over exposed by 1-2 stops.

I am quite confident that at least some of the shutter speeds are faster than advertised. And i have indeed had troubles with viewfinder flare probably 20-30 times. It's nothing that I cant reposition and live with, it just bothers me a bit. Now that im so close to dumping close to 600$ in it, I'm just considering unloading the m6 and purchasing a used, debatably higher quality mp.

I'm also not a fan of black chrome' but that is just nitpicking.

 

[anitasanger]

Circular focus confirmation?
my thoughts for what it's worth. Forget an MP unless you have cash to burn. The M6 does exactly the same thing. Rangefinder is marginally better but in 99.9% circumstance unnoticable.
I doubt very much that the camera needs a cla. As someone before suggests, check the high speeds with an old crt tv yourself. When metering err on the side of over exposure. ie when the arrows wont extinguish in finder, make sure the one thats lit is over.
What film were you using? Colour print can usually deal with +2 -1/2 exposure if not a little more.
Maybe I've been lucky with M6's but i've never seen an m6 with speeds off by much at all.

Thanks, I'll give the CRT thing a try. Circular confirmation, meaning the central light in between the two arrows to confirm exposure. I'm sorry, I typed focus when I meant exposure. Ugh, its been a long weekend.

 

[nobbylon]

Try this. clean the contacts on the back door for the asa. Is the under exposure common to a particular speed? My guess would be the meter is fine and that the 1/500 and 1/1000 are too fast after what you've said. Try a film under controlled circumstance before writing that m6 off.

 

[anitasanger]

It does seem to be at certain speeds only. I will try cleaning the contacts. I'm all but positive that several shutter speeds are running too fast.

 

[hteasley]

I love Sherry's work. She's hand her hands in all of my Leicas. Youxin seems like a great guy, but I've not ever dealt with him. He doesn't replace things like the frame line mask, etc that other CLAs I've seen leave alone where Sherry brings the camera back to a like new, but better.

I spent this afternoon at Youxin's, watching him CLA a IIIf I picked up a month or so ago. Rangefinder was weak, mechanics were stiff. Watching him work was amazing. He showed me the curtains were about to crack, as a previous CLA had used too much lubricant, and it had gotten on the shutter and was degrading it. So he cut a new shutter and installed that.

He cut a new beam splitter from a larger piece of silvered glass for the rangefinder and installed that. Everything was cleaned and lubed very precisely. Ran the shutter at all speeds and adjusted it and tested it over and over, to get the shutter as accurate as possible. It's like a new camera now.

His prices are great, and his workmanship is wonderful. I definitely recommend him, without hesitation.