Leica LTM Sonnar ltm?

[aleksanderpolo]

I posted another thread on ZM forum, and finally got an Nikkor HC 5cm f2 ltm (thanks Eric) and I am loving it.

Now my question is, should I try other Sonnar ltm lens? Or are they too similar to HC that I should skip them and save up for the C-Sonnar? What would you do? And is this thread in the right sub-forum?

 

[venchka]

My Nikkor Sonnar pair: 5.0cm 1.4 & 8.5cm 2.0. Love them.

Probably best in Leica LTM copies.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Asking the wrong guy!

The Nikkor-HC 5cm F2 is very close in rendition to the Wartime CZJ Sonnar "T" 5cm F2. The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 is sharper, harsher Bokeh. The Canon 50/1.5 is smoother, not as biting sharp wide-open. The wartime CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T" is sharper, and smooth Bokeh. The Pre-War uncoated lenses give softer colors.

Unless you need F1.5, the Nikkor 5cm F2 lens is as nice as they come.

I have many Sonnars.

 

[aleksanderpolo]

Thank you Brian, exactly what I want to know. So I guess I will save up for the C-Sonnar for a more modern look then...

 

[back alley]

don't forget the lovely rollei sonnar 40/2.8...it is ltm.

 

[venchka]

I'm the wrong guy????????????????????????
No worries. I bought the 50 in the 70s. When I knew nothing. Before Al Gore invented the internet. Before everyone knew everything. I liked it then. I like it now. The 85 is even nicer. IMO. YMMV.
I am also only the second owner of the 50/1.4. How's that for cool?

Sonnar? Modern? Why?

 

[LeicaTom]

The Nikkor f2/50 HC is an amazing lens......I'm working on my third one now 🙂 - 😉
Though I just bought the REAL DEAL a 1940 f2/50 CZJ Sonnar T in a "hacked" LTM mount, another great lens that renders lovely "retro" looking color pix.

If your looking for a more MODERN look, then the C Sonnar is the way to go......but if you want to experience the 3D Sonnar "vintage glow" then go find the Cult/Holy Grail lens (I say the lens EVERYONE should own!) - the "Japanese Sonnar" ~ The Canon f1.5/50 😀

Good Luck and Happy Shooting!

Tom

 

[kermaier]

I haven't done scientific, controlled comparisons, but my impression of my examples (both NKJ) is that the Nikkor HC 50/2 is sharper than the SC 50/1.4. Also, the Canon 50/1.5 seems a bit warmer than either of the Nikkors.

The Nikkor 85/2 and 105/2.5 are also really sharp Sonnar types.

::Ari

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I'm the wrong guy????????????????????????
No worries. I bought the 50 in the 70s. When I knew nothing. Before Al Gore invented the internet. Before everyone knew everything. I liked it then. I like it now. The 85 is even nicer. IMO. YMMV.

I may be wrong as English is not my native language, but I thought Brian meant "If you ask me you're asking the wrong guy because I just won't stop talking about it..."

Cheers,

Juan

 

[johannielscom]

Brian is the Guru of Sonnar here. 😀

I'm sure his assessment of Sonnars is accurate. For the wartime Zeiss Sonnar I can vouch, mine is exactly as Brian describes it. I like it for what it is: as perfect a Sonnar when opened up to 4.0 or wider, and a sharp, almost modern-looking lens when stopped down to 5.6 or smaller. It's like having a Noctilux and a daily standard 50mm in one lens.

 

[porktaco]

that 8.5cm lens is frickin magic

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Yeah...

1935 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, front element coated. (Remounted using J-3)
1936 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, uncoated.(Remounted using J-3)
1937 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, uncoated.(Remounted using J-3)
1943 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", coated.
1945 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", coated.
1946 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", coated, transition lens.

1935 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2 uncoated. (Remounted using J-8)
1941 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2 Sonnar "T", coated.(Remounted using J-8)

1949 ZK 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, coated.
1953 KMZ J-3 5cm F1.5
1953 KMZ J-3 5cm F1.5
1956 KMZ J-3 5cm F1.5
1957 GOMZ J-3 5cm F1.5

Canon Serenar 50/1.5

Nikkor-HC 5cm F2 Collapsible
Nikkor-HC 5cm F2 Black-Rim Rigid
Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4

And those are just the 50mm ones in Leica Thread Mount...

 

[splitimageview]

I haven't posted the comparisons yet...Nikkor 50/2, Jena (wartime LTM) 50/1.5, Opton 50/1.5.

The Nikkor is sharp by f/2.8. The others have quite a bit of 'glow/veiling flare' at 1.5, but it's pretty much gone at f/2.

Comparing all 3 at f/2, there are only very minor differences that are really only seen pixel-peeping.

The Nikkor 50/2 close focus version is great, because when it's adapted to a NEX, it focuses much closer than the other two, like 18" vs 1 meter.

I've had the 50/1.4 in the past and prefer the 50/2.

 

[sparrow6224]

How does one determine if a CZJ lens is 'wartime'? I assume serial numbers.... are they listed somewhere? My initial sense is that one looks for serial numbers from 2,5M to 2,9M?

 

[johannielscom]

wartime lenses start with 270xxxx. I have seen them with 270, 271, 272, but never 273 or up. Guess Zeiss was making other lenses then that got those numbers. By the time they reached 285xxxx the war was over. I have seen them with 285 (war just ended, production started up again, to sell to occupation forces) and maybe 283, but not sure on that last one.

Hartmut Thieles books on Zeiss (I think part II) have a production date list. Brian knows a lot, so does LeicaTom. Stephan van der Zee is kind of an authority as well and sometimes posts here. Marc James Small used to for a short while. My knowledge is rather limited, all from reading online.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

1943 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T" in LTM, wide-open on the Canon P.

 

[splitimageview]

Unless you need F1.5, the Nikkor 5cm F2 lens is as nice as they come.

Agreed...and I rarely shoot at 1.5, because of the glow/flare, which makes my 1.5s pretty much f/2s by default.

Here is a comparison showing the glow...(click on the link and then move the mouse over the image) of f/1.5 vs f/2 on an Opton Sonnar...

http://bit.ly/fUaTij

I have never used a ZM C-Sonnar...

 

[Sonnar Brian]

1937 Uncoated Sonnar 5cm F1.5 on the M8.

Wide-Open

Stopped down a bit.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

1939 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", wide-open on the M8:

Directly into the Sun. I removed the coating on the far side of the aperture, was "hazed". Glass underneath was perfect.

 

[porktaco]

now must look into czj. thanks for ruining my savings.

also, nikkor 8.5cm/f2.