Kodak BW400CN - advice needed

[greyelm]

I haven't shot B&W film for over thirty years. I have recently obtained some BW400CN and plan to shoot it in my Leica IIf with an uncoated Summitar followed by commercial developing & scanning. I would appreciate any advice on use bearing in mind that I will probably be using the good old sunny 16 rule.

Malcolm

 

[hipsterdufus]

Sounds to me like you've got a good plan already, honestly. BW400CN has good exposure latitude, so sunny 16 should work well. Just find a lab with a good reputation near you and you're all set. Since it's been awhile since you've shot black and white, remember that composition and lighting have far more importance than with color. And more than anything else, have fun!

 

[alexnotalex]

I'm just starting learning about BW and tried 2 C-41 BW films.

With BW400CN I was happy with the results in terms of grain and detail - although I had the impression there was a purple tone to the prints and scans I got back from Jessops.

purple

after converting from BW400CN to Black and White Tri-X plugin in Lightroom
which seemed just crazy, but the results are good

I tried a roll of Ilford, and found the results a little grainier, but without the bonus purple.
Here's from the Ilford XP2

I'm happy overall with the BW C-41 film, also the fact that I can get it processed easily and fast. Jessops said they would have to send real BW film away and it'd take a week or more for the results. Booh!

best,
Alex

 

[agricola]

greyelm

You will be surprised at the exposure lattitude of C41 B&w film. I tried it out on my M4 and Hexar Af a few months ago after browsing some threads here. I used the Kodak 400Cn and the Ilford XP2

The advice was to expose it at 320 ISO. So I did, using an old Sekonic analogue meter to take incident readings. I sent it to the lab without telling them a thing. They no doubt processed it as if I had exposed it at 400 ISO.

The results were just great. The stuff seems to thrive on overexposure. If you are using a IIf then maybe you could base the Sunny 16 rule on 1/500th in bright sun which gives you about 400 ISO - or 1/200th if you want to treat it as if 200 ISO. I have a IIIf and recognise your call sign from the other place ...

I think you would get good results at 200 ISO. Some of the experts here recommend that as well as 320 ISO.

best of luck - the C41 b&w gives a lovely rendition.

 

[bobbyrab]

Any colour cast will be a result of the printing, if it has a cast and you're not happy with it, ask them to reprint, nobody has ever quibbled with me when I've asked for this.

 

[Beta Photography]

BW400CN is very easy to use, I think no need to worry too much. It's a very forgiving film. I personally like and prefer this film compared to Ilford XP2 (this one has more grain). Here are some shots taken with BW400CN:

Rgrds,

Beta
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/daily-photography

 

[Nikon Bob]

I have had good results shooting Kodak BW400CN rated at 200. If I was using a yellow filter it would be 100. You can use these different ratings on the same roll and you do not tell the processor anything, just let them process it as a normal 400CN film. If you get colour casts with the prints that is the processors fault. I have had some give me nice B&W prints and others had a colour cast. Kodak used to have a good PDF on BW400CN on there site.

Bob

 

[greyelm]

Thank you all for the encouraging advice, I hope to give it a go this weekend. As recommended I'll expose it at 200 and see what happens.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I haven't shot B&W film for over thirty years. I have recently obtained some BW400CN and plan to shoot it in my Leica IIf with an uncoated Summitar followed by commercial developing & scanning. I would appreciate any advice on use bearing in mind that I will probably be using the good old sunny 16 rule.

C-41 development. The only B&W aspect of it is that it's, in fact, "monochromatic". It has an orange mask, just like any other C-41 color film. Designed to be handled by lab people who get utterly confused by the lack of orange mask and often screw-up Ilford XP2 prints, making them look either purple or "sepia" (because they're trying to compensate for something that isn't there).


Ilford XP2, on the other hand, while it is also C-41, does not have the orange mask, and can be used to print "traditional" true B&W paper. It also has the widest latitude of any other negative film available on the market. But don't try "pushing" or "pulling" (or rating at a different speed), because although a competent lab technician can do it, 99% of labs will refuse to develop it at a different ISO rating.

The perceived "more gain" of Ilford XP2 is due to the fact that most film scanners can't handle it well if you don't handle it well; Kodak's CN film is designed to "diffuse" the light enough through a scanner that it looks "grainless".

 

[paulfish4570]

grey, i have shot a ton of that stuff, all at "box speed," which retains velvety blacks. i probably by dint of eyeball cheat with a half stop of extra exposure, so 320 might be about right if you're going to meter. if you underexpose by a stop or two, the lab computer will try to open up dark areas, which yields a lot of grain.
good shooting. it is a fine film.

 

[Chris101]

... But don't try "pushing" or "pulling" (or rating at a different speed), because although a competent lab technician can do it, 99% of labs will refuse to develop it at a different ISO rating.

The perceived "more gain" of Ilford XP2 is due to the fact that most film scanners can't handle it well if you don't handle it well; Kodak's CN film is designed to "diffuse" the light enough through a scanner that it looks "grainless".

In my experience with both of these chromogenic B&W films, if you over or underexpose it by as much as a stop and a half, it still scans just fine, with a bit more grain if underexposed.

And I agree about the scanability of the Kodak film - it was made to be scanned imo. Being silverless, you can even use ICE to remove dust.

 

[Tompas]

As recommended I'll expose it at 200 and see what happens.

Hmm. I'd recommend not to do that. Instead, simply use it like it's meant to be used, at ISO 400. I get very good results that way -- it's my favourite film. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[Nikon Bob]

You know, everyone has a different idea of what speed to rate this film at. The simplest solution would be to do a test roll with frames shot at different speeds, have it developed as normal and then decide which speed results in images that best suits your own personal tastes. This film has so much latitude that it can be many things to many people. There almost is no correct way to expose this film.

Bob

 

[Chris101]

Bob, there is no correct way to expose any film!

 

[Chinasaur]

BW400CN is my favorite B&W. I get the rich tones I like AND it's more than half as expensive to process as true B&W.

Picture taken last Saturday with a Yashica 35 CC @ 200. Overexposing BW400CN seems to bring out it's richness of tone.

 

[Pablito]

Overexpose, never underexpose. Not a bad idea to shoot it at 200. If you shoot at 400 in contrasty light, the deep shadows will be grainy, milky, ugly. Remember that since it is C41 the grain density if the opposite of normal sliver films. In other words, shadows will be grainier than the highlights. Another strategy is shoot at 400 but meter for the shadows.

As you can see from the examples, these c41 black and white films have a very smooth and grey look. Because they have exposure latitude (especially for overexposure) they tend to be flat. Very had to get highlights to block up.

Having said all that, I really dislike the smooth buttery look of these film and far prefer the tonal gradations of traditional films like Tri-X, Plus-X, HP5+, FP4, etc.

any purple color is due to scanning as RGB instead of grayscale, or to printing on color paper. If your mini lab prints only on color paper it will be almost impossible to achieve a TRULY neutral b+w no matter how carefully they balance out the printing

 

[gb hill]

I've never got the purple tint that some have spoken of but I have got a sepia tint on both BW400CN and Ilford XP-2. Here is an example of the sepia tint on XP-2. If I'm just posting to the web I can change it over to 8 bit grey scale & all the sepia will vanish. Most of the time I get good results from the lab. Enjoy the weekend.

 

[Nikon Bob]

Bob, there is no correct way to expose any film!

Yea, so long as you get what you want is all that matters.

Bob

 

[kkdanamatt]

Thank you all for the encouraging advice, I hope to give it a go this weekend. As recommended I'll expose it at 200 and see what happens.

I shot 16 rolls of XP-2/CN in Italy a few years ago. Be generous with your exposure....don't underexpose and you'll be fine. The lab may print 4x6 off the roll slightly magenta, slightly sepia, or anywhere in between. But you can correct your final prints afterwards.